Thread: Just the tip......7 rem mag A-Tip load development

Originally Posted by 300_BLK

I don’t get the propensity of kiwi hunters to use a bullet manufactured and marketed for targets and load them for shooting deer and expect hunting bullet results.

Bullet manufacturers might know what they are talking about, I mean Hornady has only been making bullets since 1949.

Load some Speer grand slams and I bet you will get good, ethical results

Bro have you been hiding under a rock

Originally Posted by 300_BLK

I don’t get the propensity of kiwi hunters to use a bullet manufactured and marketed for targets and load them for shooting deer and expect hunting bullet results.

Bullet manufacturers might know what they are talking about, I mean Hornady has only been making bullets since 1949.

Load some Speer grand slams and I bet you will get good, ethical results

The obvious reply to this is the historic "7mm 162gr Amax", of which I thankfully still have 600.

Originally Posted by sneeze

The other issue I see with them is the alloy tip extends out covering the edge of the jacket which I think coupled with the lack of cavity prevents reliable expansion.. .

I think your assessment is pretty spot on regarding them not being able to expand. Just look at bthp pills when the tip is fully closed up and how they fail to expand even with the large tip cavity.

If I was @dannyb I would section one of his 7mm Atips just to be sure. The 6.5 Atips might be different internally than the 7mm Atips.

@sneeze the 147gr eld-m in my 6.5prc has been an absolute hammer on the deer I've shot recently (150m-500meters) (7 reds in last 2weeks) , a noticeable impact difference to the 143 eldx and 140gr gold dots. (I'm shooting bonded bulllets in the bush).

Originally Posted by Roarless20

I think your assessment is pretty spot on regarding them not being able to expand. Just look at bthp pills when the tip is fully closed up and how they fail to expand even with the large tip cavity.

If I was @dannyb I would section one of his 7mm Atips just to be sure. The 6.5 Atips might be different internally than the 7mm Atips.

@sneeze the 147gr eld-m in my 6.5prc has been an absolute hammer on the deer I've shot recently (150m-500meters) (7 reds in last 2weeks) , a noticeable impact difference to the 143 eldx and 140gr gold dots. (I'm shooting bonded bulllets in the bush).

Make of it what you will, I'll report back with real world results after next week. My observation is, it doesn't appear to be much different compared to a 150gn eldx (all i had to compare it to but eldx are marketed as a "hunting bullet") jacket thickness looks similar and tip dimensions look similar with the only difference being what the tips are made of. The o.g amax pills had ally tips which by all acounts worked outstandingly.

Originally Posted by sneeze

The obvious reply to this is the historic "7mm 162gr Amax", of which I thankfully still have 600.

This remains one of the classic misconceptions…

That projectile wasn’t categorised as a match bullet by Hornady for many years. It was categorised in the reloading manuals as a target-match, varmint and medium game bullet.

It was only upon the publication of the 10th edition of the reloading manual in 2016 that Hornady fiddled with the categorisation having introduced the ELD-X and ELD-M in a rather cynical move to convince shooters that they needed two bullets in the place of one… Mysteriously, the 162gr A-Max suddenly became “only” a target bullet which was a bit daft because it was also listed as discontinued. Interesting how they chose to erase so many years of A-Max history like that!

In my view the A-Tip is 100% oriented towards match shooting and its construction is highly suspect for a hunting bullet. The apparent lack of a cavity would make me steer well clear. However… and there’s always a however… when it was first introduced there was a flurry of long-range hunting videos and one in particular stuck in my mind and that was long-range pronghorn hunting:



Personally I want to see a much more apparent shock to the animal, especially if hit on the shoulder like that. That pronghorn took off like greased lightning which isn’t a problem in that environment but in our environment it would quite likely be lost without a tracking dog.

@dannyb, that ELD-X is probably hiding a cavity behind the tip if you grind it back a little further. Certainly all the ones I’ve sectioned in different calibres have had a proper cavity.

Originally Posted by dannyb

Make of it what you will, I'll report back with real world results after next week.

Real world results are the only ones that matter!

Obviously they will kill deer, its just the consistency of performance and speed of death that matters, especially in the bush or tiger country.

Keep us posted.

Originally Posted by Flyblown

@dannyb, that ELD-X is probably hiding a cavity behind the tip if you grind it back a little further. Certainly all the ones I’ve sectioned in different calibres have had a proper cavity.

Nope, just been out and sectioned it a bit more....if it's hiding a cavity then it's well hidden....i know from personal experience the 150gn eldx is an extremely good hunting bullet.

Just goes to show how inconsistent some of these bullets are!

The Atip copper jacket is alot thicker at the front than the eld-x. Also the alloy tip will be alot harder than the plastic to deform to push back inside the copper jacket to start expansion. It looks like a hard bullet.

Either way you'll find out after you shoot a few animals.

Think I’m starting to uncover a cavity with in the top on that one to

Cavity will likely be off centre this one’s way off iv had a bad run with eldx maybe it is quality control

I have used the 6.5mm atip a bit on reds but nothing over 250y as yet.
In my experience they open slower than a amax/eldm (haven't used a exldx to compare)
Pretty small sample size but 3 shot broadside in engine room had golf ball to tennis ball sized exits but comparatively little damage/blood on the entry side.
Nothing has dropped on the spot but everything has been recovered.
Unless I had some sort of controlled situation like a cull in a paddock I am reluctant to try long (4-5-6 hundred y) on an animal with them.
In 6.5 at least they work in closer ranges on red deer sized animals but the delayed opening is noticeable compared to amax/eldm

Originally Posted by Kelton

Cavity will likely be off centre this one’s way off iv had a bad run with eldx maybe it is quality control

I went back through my section photos and they all have cavities, but they are very variable from big to almost non-existent.

Since they first came out there’s always been a small number of hunters who swear that the ELDX did not work for them. We’ve debated it on here enough times. If you look at the marketing material and most of the sections, the projectile is supposed to have a decent size cavity behind the tip. If it doesn’t then it’s not been made properly.

this is pretty revealing.

Originally Posted by Flyblown

This remains one of the classic misconceptions…

That projectile wasn’t categorised as a match bullet by Hornady for many years. It was categorised in the reloading manuals as a target-match, varmint and medium game bullet.

Your sentence is a little contradictory, I think what you meant to say that it wasn't classified as "just" a match bullet ? But it is a bullet marketed as a target/ match bullet that works well on game, pretty much the point I was making.