Thread: Keeping it Simple for New Handloaders

Main thing for beginners in my humble opinion is start with premium components.

Full length resize. Don't bother with much finicky stuff, just learn to set the projectile up just off the lands and worry solely about powder charge for a start.

However you decide to lube a case, use fuel lite or well dried meths to make sure they are spotlessly clean before loading.

The reason to buy premium components is if you start off with once fired brass like most people do, you can run into problems you will never recognize, can't chase up and which are really the realm of experts. Sorting dodgy cases out requires skill and equipment and is the root of a lot of problems.

If you start with a premium case (Lapua etc) weight your powder extremely carefully, seat a projectile well and use an established powder/projectile combo for the chambering, you will load good ammo in ordinary gear.

My old gear was ultra cheap second hand trademe gear with a bottom of the line Spartan C press. Loaded some very good ammo.




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Originally Posted by Tussock

...just learn to set the projectile up just off the lands...

Personally don't agree with this methodology.

Started out reading that this was the way (chase the lands, seat X thou off etc.), didn't have terrible accuracy but not that awesome either.

Learned about bullet designs and Tangent/Secant/Hybrid ogives.

Researched the original cartridge specs.

Then started to load 'jump friendly' bullets to factory length, and magic happens. This was most pronounced on the .308.

Does not help when there are no clear definitions on target vs. hunting loads, seen guys trying to replicate some sort of F-class load on their hunting rig.

If your rifle is wearing a factory barrel then neck-turning/reaming won't do anything and seating to the lands is probably going to make the rifle a single shot due to mag length restrictions.

If I were to start someone off I would say find a factory load that shoots good, then replicate that 1:1 or as close as possible, then progress from there.

Reloading is either about saving money or working up a super-tuned load, trying to do both at the same time usually doesn't work!

Originally Posted by caberslash

Personally don't agree with this methodology.

Started out reading that this was the way (chase the lands, seat X thou off etc.), didn't have terrible accuracy but not that awesome either.

Learned about bullet designs and Tangent/Secant/Hybrid ogives.

Researched the original cartridge specs.

Then started to load 'jump friendly' bullets to factory length, and magic happens. This was most pronounced on the .308.

Does not help when there are no clear definitions on target vs. hunting loads, seen guys trying to replicate some sort of F-class load on their hunting rig.

If your rifle is wearing a factory barrel then neck-turning/reaming won't do anything and seating to the lands is probably going to make the rifle a single shot due to mag length restrictions.

If I were to start someone off I would say find a factory load that shoots good, then replicate that 1:1 or as close as possible, then progress from there.

Reloading is either about saving money or working up a super-tuned load, trying to do both at the same time usually doesn't work!

Greetings Caberslash,
Have had very good results with projectiles seated well short of the lands, usually due to long throat and short magazine. If you can't feed the rounds from the mag then what is the point of having a repeater. I generally seat the projectiles 1 mm from the lands where the mag and seating depth allow but otherwise to suit the latter. The things that I find helps to get the best accuracy where the projectiles have some distance to go is to avoid boat tail projectiles and use the heavier projectiles, say 165 grains in the .308 W. A recent test series I shot in my .308 (long throated) with 125, 150 and 165 grain FB projectiles showed an increase in accuracy as the weight increased. All were reasonable for accuracy but the 150 grain boat tails I tried years ago were average at best.
Regards Grandpamac.

Originally Posted by caberslash

Personally don't agree with this methodology.

Started out reading that this was the way (chase the lands, seat X thou off etc.), didn't have terrible accuracy but not that awesome either.

Learned about bullet designs and Tangent/Secant/Hybrid ogives.

Researched the original cartridge specs.

Then started to load 'jump friendly' bullets to factory length, and magic happens. This was most pronounced on the .308.

Does not help when there are no clear definitions on target vs. hunting loads, seen guys trying to replicate some sort of F-class load on their hunting rig.

If your rifle is wearing a factory barrel then neck-turning/reaming won't do anything and seating to the lands is probably going to make the rifle a single shot due to mag length restrictions.

If I were to start someone off I would say find a factory load that shoots good, then replicate that 1:1 or as close as possible, then progress from there.

Reloading is either about saving money or working up a super-tuned load, trying to do both at the same time usually doesn't work!

I should have said "don't worry about the lands". It would have made more sense.

As you note, most of the time there is a big jump just to fit in the magazine.

What I really meant is chose a distance from the lands and work on powder charge and don't bother worrying about it. As apposed to finding a powder charge for velocity and then adjusting the seating depth for accuracy.

Seeing as we are disagreeing with things, I don't agree with duplicating factory loads.

Unless you are using a high BC projectile, getting it to group better than 2" at 100m is a waste of time anyway.

Nothing more pointless than wind sensitive flat bases that shoot tight groups at 100m if that's not their sole purpose.

You won't need those tight groups until miles past the useful range of an ordinary projectile.

Duplicated a 55gr V-max load in a 22-250. Got it shooting better then the factory half inch loads. Took forever. Had to change powders and brass. Then realised a 12lb varmint rifle was useless at long range shooting a low BC projectile. It was nothing more than a mediocre 100m target rifle.

Still fun though.

A VLD shooting 1.5" would be more useful at range than a corloct shooting 0.5"

Tight groups at 100m is precision, not accuracy.

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Originally Posted by grandpamac

Greetings Caberslash,
Have had very good results with projectiles seated well short of the lands, usually due to long throat and short magazine. If you can't feed the rounds from the mag then what is the point of having a repeater. I generally seat the projectiles 1 mm from the lands where the mag and seating depth allow but otherwise to suit the latter. The things that I find helps to get the best accuracy where the projectiles have some distance to go is to avoid boat tail projectiles and use the heavier projectiles, say 165 grains in the .308 W. A recent test series I shot in my .308 (long throated) with 125, 150 and 165 grain FB projectiles showed an increase in accuracy as the weight increased. All were reasonable for accuracy but the 150 grain boat tails I tried years ago were average at best.
Regards Grandpamac.

Hey there @grandpamac , cheers for the reply.

Funny you mention that. I thought my .308 Tikka CTR was a 'dud' as the 150 grain BT projectiles just shot OK, around an inch and nothing spectacular. If anything the accuracy seemed to improve the hotter the barrel got but I never tested this to an extreme (mirage concerns and not being silly). Did a little reading on the matter and discovered the CTR actually has a 1:11 twist rate (same spec the USMC and Army have for shooting 168 and 175 MatchKings) so I tried the 175 SMK loaded to 'M118LR' spec (i.e 2.8" COAL, match primer and a 40+ grain load of stick powder).

Then it was like a laser beam, only sold it as I think .308 shooting that sort of bullet weight is a little bit over-gunned for the UK.

Another example would be loading Barnes 110 TTSX in the .270, great accuracy from the jump-friendly bullet and at 3,000+fps the stout wee bullet hits hard with comparatively little recoil.

Just got into flat base bullets for the .223 Vixen I have (originally a .222 that some idiot had reamed short of headspace, but thankfully fixed now!), and for the magazine length I would not consider boat-tails anyway.

Did some research on the chambering and the approximate 1:12-1:14 twist was optimal for the .22 cal bullets available at the time with thin jackets and accuracy was excellent (as you know this chambering held the world benchrest record for decades until the PPC was king).

Quite like the flat base as they make perfect sense in a rifle that won't be going past 300m, they need slightly more chamfer on the case neck for seating when compared to a boat-tail but determining seating depth is a breeze (as it should be!).

Originally Posted by Tussock

I should have said "don't worry about the lands". It would have made more sense.

As you note, most of the time there is a big jump just to fit in the magazine.

What I really meant is chose a distance from the lands and work on powder charge and don't bother worrying about it. As apposed to finding a powder charge for velocity and then adjusting the seating depth for accuracy.

Seeing as we are disagreeing with things, I don't agree with duplicating factory loads.

Unless you are using a high BC projectile, getting it to group better than 2" at 100m is a waste of time anyway.

Nothing more pointless than wind sensitive flat bases that shoot tight groups at 100m if that's not their sole purpose.

You won't need those tight groups until miles past the useful range of an ordinary projectile.

Duplicated a 55gr V-max load in a 22-250. Got it shooting better then the factory half inch loads. Took forever. Had to change powders and brass. Then realised a 12lb varmint rifle was useless at long range shooting a low BC projectile. It was nothing more than a mediocre 100m target rifle.

Still fun though.

A VLD shooting 1.5" would be more useful at range than a corloct shooting 0.5"

Tight groups at 100m is precision, not accuracy.

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Always better to have some disagreements or else this forum would just be another echo chamber!

I would not give up on your 12lb 22-250 Varmint rifle just yet, what do you consider to be 'long range'?

Wind drift may be a big concern, but so long as you can dial for drop or even wind on your scope then it might still be good?

That being said, I would not want to be dialling when trying to lamp a fox so point and shoot is key. 22-250 and 25-06 were varmint rounds of choice for a reason!

Another rambling thought, there is a strong rumour that Lee Precision is going to stop making Lee Classic Loaders soon. Although they are not able to FL size I think they are still a very handy tool to have in the box (de-prime, size, reprime, charge, seat and shoot!).