Light Loads for a .308W.

Greetings All,
I have a little Bergara break open rifle in .308W that I have started taking on my mid week gentlemen's hour wanders in the Kaweka's. The idea is that it can be broken down and stowed in my pack should the need or desire arise. So far it has been used with some old target loads for my M700 .308W. These were loaded with Hornady Interlock projectile ahead of 38 grains of AR2206H. In my then 22 inch barrel of the M700 they delivered around 2,380 fps. After consulting my loading notes and crunching some numbers it seems that 41 grains should give around 2,500 fps at pressure low enough so that the cases can be endlessly neck sized and thought I would use Norma 150 grain projectiles of which I have a decent supply. These are semi pointed and have expanded well on the few deer that I have shot with them.
So the question is: Has anyone else been down this particular rabbit hole and what were the results. I could also use 150 grain Hornady round nose projectiles which expand down to around 1,700 fps according to reports.
Regards Grandpamac.

Ive found IMR 4198 is a far better powder for reduced velocity loads, much better accuracy than 2206H. 30gr seems to work well in any '08 case.

I have used 30-30 projectiles in my 308 for about 25 years. They are devastating at normal moderate 308 speeds, but in recent years I have also loaded down closer to 30-30 velocities for my Bergara takedown. A load of 40 or 41 grains of AR2208 behind the Hornady 160gr FTX gives 2350 fps - I'll confirm the load later.
I've also been loading 151gr cast bullets at subsonic and low supersonic speeds with Trailboss for the 308 and 30-30.

150g sst will expand well at slower speeds,think my old bush load was 35g of 2206h,

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Originally Posted by Arthur McBride

I went down this rabbit hole with the .30/06.
Use the Hornady 150 grain round noses at the 38 grains velocity of 2300 fps, or with 41 grains velocity of 2500 fps use the 170 grain Hornady RN. They are .30/30 bullets and perfect for your application. The 170 grain RN will expand as slow as you want and according to the Hornady tech that answered my email, they will work well up to 2500 fps.

Out of interest for .22 magnum loads with the .308 that would kill a rabbit (or a deer if you got him through the ribs), 12-14 grains of AP70N and a 125 -130 grain bullet will go 1800fps and give superlative accuracy.

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What’s the report like on the AP70 load?

I’m gonna give that load a go,have been using 8.5G trail boss as a subsonic bunny and hare killer but the accuracy is a bit erratic.quiet though.will be using 150g core lokt bullet though as I have a bunch.also have some 171g cast that might be worth a try.

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Originally Posted by Cigar

I have used 30-30 projectiles in my 308 for about 25 years. They are devastating at normal moderate 308 speeds, but in recent years I have also loaded down closer to 30-30 velocities for my Bergara takedown. A load of 40 or 41 grains of AR2208 behind the Hornady 160gr FTX gives 2350 fps - I'll confirm the load later.
I've also been loading 151gr cast bullets at subsonic and low supersonic speeds with Trailboss for the 308 and 30-30.

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Checked my records, load for the 160gr FTX is 41gr of AR2208, for 2352fps with a 16.5 inch barrel.

With shooternz's 151gr cast bullets, 14gr of Trailboss gave 1565fps with a 24 inch 1:12 twist barrel, it is probably a bit slower in the Bergara 16.5 inch 1:8 twist (lighter loads were 30-40fps different between rifles).

Try find some SR4759

roberts 151grn hp cast with case full of trail boss....plenty of folks using them in 30/30 at good results
speer 130grn HP work really really well and will be happy at slower speed too...the 125grn NBT does too
they both worked very well in 7.62x39mm so .308 light loads work well...Ive used both projectile in both cartridges with great results.

@grandpamac great to see you getting to the stage of incorporating a bit of armed bush walking into your fitness/health kick :thumbsup:.

I think me & @Arthur McBride have discussed this before as we have both been down a similar path & used those same light loads in our Mighty 06's with great success & 08's over the years with my wife & daughters both using them for decades .

I worked out "light"hunting loads for my wife nearly 4 decades ago when we first started going out as although she was a country girl she had never fired any rifle larger than a .222 (gee she is a old bitch) & back then when she started hunting with me the lightest/shortest rifle l had was the 308 Mohawk l got for my 21st (gee l am a old bastard) ,l brought one of those terrible plastic Ramline stocks for to take more weight off for her & then when my girls started hunting at 10yrs old ,l had a Ruger Paddle stock cut down to 16" as their deer rifle ,both weighed under 7.5lbs fully loaded ,no suppressors , so recoil & noise were a big factor but l would not compromise on hunting performance in the field as wounding game would have a much bigger turn off effect than noise IMO.

With 150 grn loads l found loads as mentioned by AM very good as well as the following & these were successfully hunted with by them for decades as we later ended up with a collection of Sako 75's Finnlights due to my work & the girls later claimed Howa's they set up for themselves with good old Dad's (sucker) spare scopes/stocks etc & they still hunt with them to this day .

Proven light 150 loads used on everything here except Wapiti & on Plains Game in Africa by all.


. POWDER/ LOAD...Velocity FPS
- Hornady 150-gr. JSP 2400 / 20.0 grns 1780 -A extremely light recoiling load that was very good on Goats, Fallow,Yearlings etc

- Hornady 150-gr. JSP AA 5744 / 24.0 1830 - Ditto


- Hornady 150-gr. JSP IMR-4227 / 24.0 1997 -Excellent light hunting load for what ever walks in Kiwi Land


But what a lot of people over look is drop down a bullet weight & use the excellent 125 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip bullet a bullet that performs brilliantly in light recoiling loads , just keep it under 3000 fps impact velocity and it will put down even large Deer like a bag of shit seems to be a very accurate load in a variety of rifles l have tried it in and has FAR less felt recoil than a normal 150 gr load does.I can not find my old proper load Data for it from back then ,but l have scrawled on another comparison note ,so if you worked out a load similar -

I settled on a proven light hunting load ( so aim for same approx with what ever is now available after the great ammo/component Apocalypse ) the 125 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip bullet with 46 grs IMR 4895 for approx 2950 fps,on game at around 100 -175yards (as far as the girls would hunt) these will punch through both shoulders (so guessing around 2800fps impact).All the girls used this load a lot for when we had access to a prime Sika patch & when called in or bumped at under 100yards the jacket of the bullet would mostly be found just under the hide on the off side after going through both shoulders . These are a fantastic Fallow,Snack Pack Red , Chammy & goat load as well.

They would have taken 100's of game with these loads over the years,including many impressive heads.

IMO may be have a think about a lighter bullet as well, it would be perfect for the little Berger monster & depending on rifle may shoot to a easily remembered POI (never owned a folder). Hope info helps , good onya for sticking at health kick & good luck with the Armed Bush walks .:thumbsup:

125grn NBT are fine at bush range too....

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Originally Posted by GWH

Ive found IMR 4198 is a far better powder for reduced velocity loads, much better accuracy than 2206H. 30gr seems to work well in any '08 case.

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Sounds promising, is there an equivalent ARXXXX powder?

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Originally Posted by Synthetic

Sounds promising, is there an equivalent ARXXXX powder?

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2207

I started a bunch of testing of Robert Walker's 308 151gn Gas Checked Cast HP in my Interarms 308 and my Marlin 336 30-30 which has been interrupted by Covid and Surgery.

I used Lyman data for reduced loads with 3031. I've not got to using them on game yet but there is plenty of evidence of their effectiveness there.

With the 308 the data showed a Start Load of 27.0gn powder for 1767 fps and a max of 42gn Compressed for 2810 fps. The data was for a Lyman #311466 from Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 3rd Ed, p 185.

I stopped my incremental Load Test at 37.0 gn as accuracy started to go off with 4 shots at 2402, 2305, 2331 and 2233 fps and the load started to feel rather hot. Quite a spread and I was not really looking for that high a velocity from Cast.

Target was at 50m, Primer was Fed 210 LRP and brass was 7.62 military. Barrel is 22.5" Suppressed.

My increments were coarse at 1.0gn per step. While there was reasonable hunting level grouping at several load levels the best was a node at 34.0gn with shots giving 2246, 2094, 2081, 2075 fps and another at 28.0gn with shots at 1609, 1646, 1606, 1607 fps. The latter was by far the best group. I made 50 of these for an NZDA hunter training shoot at 100 and 200m. Bearing in mind that I am a complete novice at NZDA shoots in particular and that both the rifle and the load are fairly new to me I was pretty happy to be in the kill zone on all but a couple of my shots.

Subsequently I ran incremental tests with Trailboss and also tested "The Load" using IMI Nobel 78 Shotgun powder instead of Red Dot. Primer was a Fiocchi LRP

the best result I had with the Nobel 78 was at 12.0gn. Higher than that I started experiencing occasional heavy bolt lift. At 12 gns I recorded 1598, 1592, 1578, 1581 fps. This was by far the best group I have achieved with these projectiles, any powder. This makes a very economic powder choice. My lowest charge in this run was 7.5gn for 1204, 1241, 1207, 1225 fps and good grouping.

With Trailboss I was looking for subsonic but 151gn I think is probably a tad too light a projectile for really effective subs in 308. 8.5gn gave me results that were on the cusp - 1176, 1166, 1194, 1188, 1166 fps. This was a very accurate load at 50m but some went supersonic about the same as .22 hi velocity.

At 6.5gn I had a tight clustered group of 3 with one outlier and an average of 1006fps, at 7gn an average of 1044 with clear horizontal stringing

My perceived difference in sound between suppressed supersonic with 8.5gn and complete subsonic with 6.5 did not seem that great.

I think in a bush hunting scenario I'll stick with the better hitting power of a 151gn projectile in the 15-1600 fps band that is also grouping well.

Greetings and Many Thanks to you all,
My reduced load rabbit hole has gained some extensions. I think I will start using some of the components and powders that I currently have. for projectiles this include Speer 110 grain HP Varminter, a few Speer 125 grain HP TNT, 150 grain Hornady Interlock Spire point and Round Nose and Norma 150 grain Semi Pointed. For powder there is IMR4227,4198 and 4064 plus ADI Benchmark 8208, AR2206H and a Little Trail boss. First off a load with the Norma 150 grain and 41 grains of AR2206H will give me something to shoot, at which point the fun will begin. This may take some time.
Regards and thanks again Grandpamac.

If it's any help I'm running 43.5grn 2206h and a 150 speer btsp out of an adi case in a 16inch barrel to get 2650fps tested in .5 upto 45grns and gained bugger all. Same case and powder but a sierra sbt 165 with 42.5 was coming out at 2450fps

Greetings Again All,
I have extracted all of the loads from your collected wisdom into a page full of my notes to allow easier reference. @Jhon I don't have any IMR3031 but do have BM8208 which is about the same speed and do have some 151 grain HP cast lead projectiles so will try that and some IMR4198.
Thanks again. Grandpamac.
PS I think I need to scope at least one of those target rifles. Both have a 14 inch twist vs the 12 inch twist in my Bergara

@grandpamac Have fun!

I asked the question regarding similar loads for my son using a 7-08. Hodgen have a good PDF online if you search Hodgen Youth Loads

Greetings and Thanks @Stag,
I discovered the Hodgdon data a while back and printed it to go in my .308 Load ring binder. They also did a sheet on Trail Boss data and one on subsonic loads. The options are practically endless. I have found that I need to develop a clear aim in developing loads for a rifle or I can get lost in the options. My Bergara is suppressed and the aim was to develop a low pressure load for casual bush and creek bed hunting and looked to approximate .30-30 performance. The number crunching is done and it now remains to put some cartridges together for testing on the target and chronograph.
Regards Grandpamac.

If it is just a single shot that you use occasionally and having old eye's you're not shooting it far.

I'd use a big 180 grain going slow personally.