Thread: Load determination / Handloading for my AR15

I dont suppose I will put up my full notes on what I have been doing but some interesting points on projectiles,

I noticed that the Barnaul ammo I tried had a far bigger vertical spread than horizontal suggesting handloads may do better and they are cheap!

Anyway I have weighed some projectiles to check out the above theory,

Barnaul 62 Grain FMJs - 19 cents each
<61 = 10
61.1~< 61.8 = 27
61.8~62.2gr = 25 (10 made up as a test load to see potential, make up another 10 of lowest and highest to compare grouping with)
>62.2~62.9 = 13
>62.9 = 4

(I will go back and do these in 0.1gr) variation is huge 60.7 to 63.3gr.

Job to do, strip out loaded Barnaul's and compare charge weights and projectile weights to see if the charge varies as much as the projectiles do.

Armscor 62 Grain FMJs - 31cents each
60.9 = 2
61.0 = 0
61.1 = 2
61.2 = 4
61.3 = 12
61.4 = 4
61.5 = 12
61.6 = 13
61.7 = 5
61.8 = 1
61.9 = 1
62.0 = 2
62.1 = 0

ADI 62gr FMJs - 26cents each
60.7 = 2
60.8 = 7
60.9 = 10
61.0 = 10
61.1 = 9
61.2 = 12
61.3 = 7
61.4 = 9
61.5 = 8
61.6 = 15
61.7 = 17
61.8 = 21
61.9 = 21
62.0 = 10
62.1 = 6
62.2 = 0

I would have said the ADI looked the best finished by far and the Armscor the worst, yet the weight variation favours the Armscor!

CMJs 13.5cents each

These will hopefully turn up this week and I can load some of these as well.

Next we'll see which shoots the best!

Interesting I use the barnal 62 gr sp in my reloads and for a game round find them hard to beat. Consistently group round 1 moa. May weigh a sample to see what spread there is but for practical purposes I cant see that there is any effect.

Interesting thanks for that, I was hoping ppl would comment/feedback. The horizontal spread of the FMJs isnt bad while the vertical is, suggesting a non-projectile issue.

I have loaded 10 random weights, 10 cherry picked weights (61.8 to 62.2gr) and I will load 5 bottom and 5 top weights and see if the weight matters. If not it saves hand weighing them.

I will also buy some more ready made FMJs and pull the projectiles and weight the charges to see if they are wide.

Also I use the Barnaul .311s in my Enfields and they do <2 MOA which is on par with the Mk VII.

As an aside do the sp spread well?

The Barnaul FMJ lacks a canalure and being a steel jacket I wonder if it will fragment at all.

Considering they are all 62gr FMJs they differ a lot. The ADI seems the longest and seats well down into the case, it may even be compressing the load at 23.6gr of 2208, I will have to be careful.

ADI top, barnaul middle and Amscor bottom.

The steel jackets don't fragment they hang together nicely and retain a lot of weight, Ive got some recovered from deer and goats somewhere so i'll try to put up a photo. Havnt got a target to photograph but the groups are typical tight spread round poa. Im loading 25 gr 2208 and that's just touching the powder, oal 58mm which is mag length in my zastava.

My concern with the ADI projectile is from the above pic the canalure is a long way forward compared to the other 2. The barnaul also needs a good 1 turn less on the seating die to get the same OAL of 2.260inch. I have not as yet determined the seating depth, as I dont have the hornady tool but the club does I think so I might pop up there at some stage and use it to see if I can set a longer OAL.

My first loads are just to see that the gun will cycle OK so I have started at 22.1gr 2208 and gone up to 23.6gr in 0.5grs for each projectile, anyone have a comment on these loads? as I cant find an accurate min loading for a 62gr FMJ I am usng a close SP. I have emailed ADI about that hopefully I will get a reply.

As an aside 2208 / Varget doesnt meter well? so is there a better powder choice for a progressive press?

Does a variance of 0.2gr matter on a 223? I assume not to say 300yds?

Having only shot 30cal to 1000yds 0.2gr matters not. But 0.2gr of 45 grain v 0.2gr on 23 grain is x2 the % difference and the projectile its acting on is x3.

dp

Originally Posted by steven

My concern with the ADI projectile is from the above pic the canalure is a long way forward compared to the other 2. The barnaul also needs a good 1 turn less on the seating die to get the same OAL of 2.260inch. I have not as yet determined the seating depth, as I dont have the hornady tool but the club does I think so I might pop up there at some stage and use it to see if I can set a longer OAL.

My first loads are just to see that the gun will cycle OK so I have started at 22.1gr 2208 and gone up to 23.6gr in 0.5grs for each projectile, anyone have a comment on these loads? as I cant find an accurate min loading for a 62gr FMJ I am usng a close SP. I have emailed ADI about that hopefully I will get a reply.

As an aside 2208 / Varget doesnt meter well? so is there a better powder choice for a progressive press?

Does a variance of 0.2gr matter on a 223? I assume not to say 300yds?

Having only shot 30cal to 1000yds 0.2gr matters not. But 0.2gr of 45 grain v 0.2gr on 23 grain is x2 the % difference and the projectile its acting on is x3.

Steven I would say that 0.2gr should affect groups vertically as it is quite a percentage difference in a small case.

I find that 2206h meters well through my Lee powder thrower. Haven't used 2208 before to compare though.
Kyle

27gns Varget with 55gn Vmax worked well all my AR's
BL-C 2 metered great thru my Dillon and so does 8208XBR

For the 62gr FMJ ADI came back and said start with 22.1gr 2208 to 24.1gr max

But the manual says 22.5 - 25

As promised bullet photos 62 soft point barnals recovered from game, they mostly keep their cores and expand quite well I thought the steel jackets would be less likely to expand than copper. The last bullet is a 55gr fmj that went thru a billy goat and was recovered from the hillside behind him. The photo doesn't show it but it's flattened, so was he. Don't use fmj for hunting but it was all I had left that time.

Great pics thanks. Is the fmj a barnaul one? looks like it is. From what I can read a "proper" FMJ round (if it has enough velocity) overturns on impact and snaps at the canalure and shrapnels somewhat in effect acting like soft point. I'd quite like to get some ballistic gel to experiment with, not seen any for sale in NZ yet.

The ADI FMJ has a forward canalure and its long so the tail of the bullet will protrude a lot further into the case than the Armscor or the Barnaul. At 23.6gr of 2208 I think I can here the powder being compressed with the ADI not so the other 2. So I am being careful starting at 22.1 and going up in 0.5gr. Waiting on the 55gr CMJs now.

Yep it's a barnal. a couple of the other ones I filed the points off to get a "hollow point" theres a cavity at the front that goes about 2 mm back, just air but the jackets too thick to peel back. Found the 55 gr s points not efficient enough on goats but the 62s do the business real well and at 19c too! What are the cmjs and do they make a sp?

CMJs are what @Banana uses? I will be using FMJS as its target work only and also want low cost and its 100yds so as long as they are reasonably accurate at 13.5cents it looks like I'll be buying 2000, assuming they work. aAt this price they are 1/2 the ADI and 2/3rds the cost of the Barnauls. softpoints = sales@rusa.co.nz but he has none right now, "I import Hornady 55gr SP but currently awaiting next shipment which is still several months away." I assume the hornady wont be as cheap as the barnauls.

Interesting that the 62gr are better than the 55gr, all good info.

Have a look at u tube for how to make the gel. I remember seeing how to make out of normal gelatine, something like, make it, then melt it, and when it sets the second time your good to go. Cant remember the mix though.
Looked pretty good.

Originally Posted by steven

Great pics thanks. Is the fmj a barnaul one? looks like it is. From what I can read a "proper" FMJ round (if it has enough velocity) overturns on impact and snaps at the canalure and shrapnels somewhat in effect acting like soft point. I'd quite like to get some ballistic gel to experiment with, not seen any for sale in NZ yet.

The ADI FMJ has a forward canalure and its long so the tail of the bullet will protrude a lot further into the case than the Armscor or the Barnaul. At 23.6gr of 2208 I think I can here the powder being compressed with the ADI not so the other 2. So I am being careful starting at 22.1 and going up in 0.5gr. Waiting on the 55gr CMJs now.