Load Development - Velocity vs Accuracy

If first shot always goes to point of aim and second shot very close everytime then no problem. You aren't shooting groups into animals! Second shot needs to be close as to make a hit if you stuff up the first. Chances are animal may have moved or you will be rushing before it does so you'll not be as settle as first shot anyway. If on the the other hand you are shooting long distance targets or gongs then you will probably need to address the velocity (+600yds)
So decide if you're going to be shooting deer etc or shooting groups into them. To be honest I cant see anything standing still long enough for you to do that

I've had factory ammo (on the very very rare occassion when I have bought some) give an ES of 27 fps.
One of my goals with handloading is to exceed the performance of factory ammo. A 40 fps ES would mean I should give handloading away. (No, I don't handload/reload to save money.)

And I'm still trying to come to grips with how a (good) chronograph once used, then going fwd destroys groups?? If the group is detroyed it is something the operator is doing.

I have had access to chronographs (and of course in the later years owned my own) since 1967. The one in 1967 was possibly the only one in NZ at the time. It was developed by an NZ uni professor and was nothing like we so easily use nowadays.

The chronograph is just a tool and a safety one at that, which gives you relativity against manufacturers loading charts. It has no hidden mystique, inane evil intelligence. And of course it indicates the quality of your handloading by providing numbers from which ES can be derived. It doesn't create excessive ES, or bad groups, that's up to the handloader/shooter.

well OK then I will answer that there question Mr Zimmer

Joe Bloggs has a load...lets just for arguments sake say 24.5grns of AR2206 behind a 52grn projectile in mixed brass for his .223
Joe has been using this same combination for 20 years and rifle will consistantly put all projectiles into ragged wee group somewhere between 1/2 and 1" all day everyday....animals fall over dead and Joe is happy....UNTILL Joes mate....Blowie buys a chronograph and they test Joes load and find its only going 2900fps which just isnt good enough so Joe pokes more powder in to get projectiles going 3100fps.....
see Joe WAS happy as pig in shit with what he had..... now he has mind game going on,is new load better??? is old load better??? do I need to tweak seating depth??? shit I may need a faster twist barrel to use heavy projectiles...1:8 or 1:7????? this old mini mauser wont handle that ,maybe I need to buy a new rifle????

Joe was much happier just shooting shit.
the group wasnt destroyed....Joes happiness with a perfectly good load was.
title of thread...accuracy Vs velocity.....take away the velocity bit by removing chronicgraph and its a non issue.
and 4" difference at 500 yards ISNT a wounded deer if aiming for high shoulder......its a lower chest/shoulder hit=dead deer.

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

well OK then I will answer that there question Mr Zimmer

Joe Bloggs has a load...lets just for arguments sake say 24.5grns of AR2206 behind a 52grn projectile in mixed brass for his .223
Joe has been using this same combination for 20 years and rifle will consistantly put all projectiles into ragged wee group somewhere between 1/2 and 1" all day everyday....animals fall over dead and Joe is happy....UNTILL Joes mate....Blowie buys a chronograph and they test Joes load and find its only going 2900fps which just isnt good enough so Joe pokes more powder in to get projectiles going 3100fps.....
see Joe WAS happy as pig in shit with what he had..... now he has mind game going on,is new load better??? is old load better??? do I need to tweak seating depth??? shit I may need a faster twist barrel to use heavy projectiles...1:8 or 1:7????? this old mini mauser wont handle that ,maybe I need to buy a new rifle????

Joe was much happier just shooting shit.
the group wasnt destroyed....Joes happiness with a perfectly good load was.
title of thread...accuracy Vs velocity.....take away the velocity bit by removing chronicgraph and its a non issue.
and 4" difference at 500 yards ISNT a wounded deer if aiming for high shoulder......its a lower chest/shoulder hit=dead deer.

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Ah, MD, first cab off the rank eh...

You still haven't convinced me how the chronograph is to blame for that. The issue is down to Joe Bloggs not accepting his load for what it is (satisfactory for his purposes) and going off chasing the velocity demon. I have never ever chased velocity over accuracy. That all comes out of the head of Joe Bloggs, not the dumb chronograph.

I would say further, that I have developed some very accurate (evaluated at only 100 yds though) loads which had high ES. I have stopped further development of that load and gone for different powder/primer combinations.

Also keep in mind that although the hunting element is predominant in this forum, it is still a hunting and shooting forum and for many of us we are unfortunately no longer able to enjoy hunting. So shooting becomes our pastime. A satisfactory hunting load has more leeway (except for extreme long range hunting) than a load for say a PRS shooter that he may be happy with or a fullbore shooter etc. Horses for courses.

agree....and Im a bush hobbit who just doest shoot past 350 so the horse doesnt even come into my paddock.......

Greetings All,
We have now drifted into the world of Psychology. Bos is likely wondering what he started. There is no doubt that we all are effected by how we think about things and have to make our own peace with the world as we see it. We also need to keep our aim on the goal of sufficient accuracy for our purposes. A quote I remember from a pistol bulls eye shooter, whose name I have forgotten, seems appropriate.

"If you think that it helps then it does"

Regards Grandpamac.

I use n560 in 6.5-06, what chrony are you using? Are you confident in its readings? Can't really beat a piece of paper at range to confirm drop and group size (if weather will let you) 5 rounds on a target at ~500 sou d like would be a good investment

Well, GPM
Yes. Bos is thinking he's opened a can of worms here, for sure
But what you say is quite right. The morals, do's /dont's, yes's and no's we apply to our hunting and shooting is just an extension of how we are as people and this is the psychology you're referring to.
Reloading is an interesting pastime; some are anal about every little thing, some are not. Most of us fall somewhere in between, depending on the day, which is just fine.
And as far as the topic of this post is concerned; accuracy is probably a greater attribute than speed 90 per cent of the time - thats why we have dial-up scopes isn't it??

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Originally Posted by distant stalker

I use n560 in 6.5-06, what chrony are you using? Are you confident in its readings? Can't really beat a piece of paper at range to confirm drop and group size (if weather will let you) 5 rounds on a target at ~500 sou d like would be a good investment

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Pro chrono