What you've got... FLS ahd Seater
Attachment 174618
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What you've got... FLS ahd Seater
Attachment 174618
Much better than a neck sizer :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by zimmer
That spare depriming stem makes me think the sizing die is a collet die, and for my neck collet die it needs to be hard down on the shellholder and its the amount of pressure you put on the press that determines how much the neck gets sized (iirc they recommend 25lbs). So screwing the die out probably means you can't put enough pressure on to size the neck properly.
Google for instructions.
https://leeprecision.com/files/instruct/RM3508.pdf for example
Attachment 174625
Full Length Die on the left and Collet Die on the right.
GPM
Ive got three different versions of that chart erniec on my wall above reloading bench...still refer to it at times too. LOL
Ah was meant to throw that spare away its bent and when I bought them second hand on here the seller put a new depriming stem in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cigar
did you check to see if any other lettering on dies???
Not yet will have to be tonight after work, still battling snow here, at least all my fences are back up again.
Pretty sure its a full length die looking again tonight, it has OS1 on it.
interesting...mine has L9 on it....and its a LEE rgb set.
Greetings again Happy Jack and all,
To summarise the die is almost certainly a full length sizing die. As the full length die sizes the neck down a little too far and then expands it to the proper size harder brass will result in more neck tension rather than less, the opposite of the collet dies. Sorry small_caliber. The spare decapping stem in the box is a red herring as it does not look like it belongs with the die. A full length die stem will have an expander button. It has likely been used to deprime cases as it seems burred at the top. This was likely how it got bent. Partial full length resizing as you seem to be doing Happy Jack works quite well with tapered cases for about 3 loads until they become tight. A better option would be minimal full length resizing where the case is sized just enough to chamber freely. Someone can show you how to set up your die for this. My son shoots FTR and sizes his cases this way for consistent fit in the chamber. He uses the Redding competition shell holders to ensure consistent sizing.
So where are we left with the errant projectile problem? Right back where we started. It seems from the photo that the projectile is seated with the ogive (start of the full dia section of the projectile) seated inside the neck of the case limiting the case grip. Seating the projectile longer should help with this.
There is one other possible cause and that is a crack in the case neck. These are hard to spot until the round is fired when they become hard to miss. Have a good hard look at the neck to see if there is a hair line crack.
Regards Grandpamac.
you have got me now GPM.....patial length resize I understand as have done it for years....minimal full length resize is the same thing is it not????
the only diference is you keep backing off till feel resistance then go back in a fly turd....
Greetings Micky,Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
With minimal sizing you only back of a few thou. My 6.5x55 backs of 0.2mm or 8 thou. The shoulder is moved back just enough to chamber freely. Partial sizing you back of a lot more to size enough of the neck for seating. You only reduce the case body a little and don't touch the shoulder. As you reduce the body more, from partial sizing, the shoulder is squeezed forward until the case won't chamber. Minimal sizing moves it back just enough to chamber again. With partial sizing, or neck sizing, you will need to full length size after 3 or so loads but not with minimal sizing. The latter gives a more consistent chambering so is preferred by target and bench rest shooters.
Regards Grandpamac.
cant see a diference myself...even with your explanation it seems like the same thing...either way you just changing case size enough for it to chamber and no more...
I learnt to PLR from my Nosler #2 manual and have done it for 30 years.
To add to that I would suggest its a lot harder to pull a projectile out if it's been seated too dep than to push it in, I will get him sorted I just can't get up his way for a couple weeks. I only get every second weekend off and my next weekend is already spoken for.
Poor bugger is likely fedling properly bamboozled by now :D
Greetings Micky,Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
Yes it is a subtle difference. I looked up my No 1 Nosler manual which seems to have the same excellent description as yours. Minimal Full Length resizing just matches the full length sized case to the chamber. There is often a bit of slop between the rifle chamber and the case produced by full the full length sizing die so minimal FL resizing produces a better match. You still have a FL sized case but it fits your chamber better and the brass lasts longer. The Nosler talks of the die being 1/16 inch (1.6mm) from the shell holder for partial sizing. My 6.5x55 dies are only 0.2mm from the shell holder for minimal sizing. Other people call it different things.
Regards Grandpamac.
So could this round with the pushed in projectile have had a hard weekend, causing or accentuating the problem?
I have had .30-30 rounds where the projectile has been pushed deeper from the pressure of being in the tube magazine (I now crimp all my .30-30 rounds). Maybe your round took a hard knock or had something heavy pressing down in it at the wrong angle in your pack?
Quite possible as they were loose in a pouch type bag, I find it best to carry rounds in the plastic holders that come with factory ammo, Norma ones are the best imo cause the project the full round right to the tip.
Its possible as I didn't have any ammo carriers available so had them loose.
Greetings @Happy Jack,Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Jack
Looks like the cavalry in the form of dannyb galloping over the horizon is a little delayed so here is something you can try yourself. I am pretty sure that your problem is seating the projectile too deep although other things may also be involved. You can check the maximum cartridge length quite easily. You need a cleaning rod, some callipers and a bit of tape. Set your rifle up in a vice nice and steady with the bolt in and cocked. Your cleaning rod needs to have a flat tip. I use my old Parker Hale rods but if you have a later type with the female threads you will need a spear point jag with the front filed flat. Run the cleaning rod down the barrel until it touches the bolt face. Put the bit of tape on the rod flush with the muzzle. Next pull the rod back a bit and slide a projectile point first into the start of the rifling. This is a bit tricky with an action with front lugs. I usually hold the rifle muzzle down and drop the projectile in. Hold the projectile in place with another rod and slide the cleaning rod in to touch the projectile tip. Now without bumping anything measure the distance between the tape and the muzzle. This is your cartridge overall length with the projectile touching the lands. Deduct 1mm (0.040) from this measurement and you have a good place to start. dannyb will do this in his own and likely more precise way plus check all the other items when he arrives but this should get you started.
Regards Grandpamac.
Then measure you max mag length and compare with your touching the lands minus 40 thou length. The mag length may be your determiner.
if you seat a projectile really long,use that dummy round in chamber held by hand/finger when you insert cleaning rod...stops it falling or not sitting in throat properly.
Nice tip Micky. Easier than a second cleaning rod.Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
GPM.
Right, so with time on my hands part of today I started to look at this again.
I googled seating depth to see what sort of baselines there might be and from my reading lots of results said depth = calibre. I know this is very subjective but it gave me somewhere to start.
So cases are 48.4mm and projectiles are 26mm and so at 6mm calibre this theoretically would give a seating depth resulting in a max length of 68.4mm.
I made up a dummy round and seated it to that and although it did feed the bolt was very stiff. I reduced it to 67mm and its still very stiff.
Tomorrow I'm hoping to do the cleaning rod thing. I ran out of time today.
On a side not I could seat a projectile 40mm and it would still fit in the magazine those things are huge.
More work Friday methinks and hopefully some pictures too.
Im guessing you meant to type 70mm????
try colouring projectile with vivid felt pen and do the chambering thing again,open and shut bolt a few times ,lift and close bolt handle so projectile will rub felt off if is touching rifling...
Will do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
Go and do a Youtube search for the Alex Wheeler method of finding the seating depth .
Thanks @zimmer dannyb did describe that but it was good to see it demonstrated on Youtube
The continuing saga of my quest.
Spent a couple of hours in the shed this afternoon and did some measuring with a cleaning rod and a couple of rounds one a factory PPU round and one a seated long 63mm Sierra round.
From what I could determine using this method (bear in mind I was measuring to a bit of tape) it came to 60-60.78mm.
Attachment 176547
Attachment 176548
Factory PPU round
Attachment 176549
Factory round in magazine
Attachment 176550
Comparison of rounds the black one has been cycled twice and no marks seen.
Attachment 176551
In my post yesterday I made a typo, I recalibrated my calipers with e new battery today and the following measurements were recorded along with the 60mm chamber measurement noted above.
Resized case 48.58mm
Sierra 1455 projectile 21mm
Seated 6mm into the case gives me 63.5mm which is really tight to close the bolt. I reduced down to 62mm and its still tight so I'm guessing at this point due to a mistake on my part in damaging the case of my dummy that the 60mm is going to be pretty close and the 59.4 of factory rounds is good but seats the projectile quite deep at 9mm approx.
I'm going to stop for now as its getting confusing and will hope all this lockdown nonsense is over soon.
soon as I can I'll come out mate will make all of this a lot simpler :thumbsup:
have you trimmed overall length of case back to spec????
if case is tight to chamber....and projectile ISNT rubbing......something else is touching...NOT the projectile
Yep pretty sure that is what my mistake was hence why I stopped. But I do have a better understanding of a few things after today so at least I learnt something.Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
I'm not going to do anymore until such times as I can catch up with dannyb
Big shout out to @r87mm for calling in today on his way back from the Molesworth and helping me to measure my chamber and set up my sizing die properly. Thanks mate and good to meet another member of this great place.
Don't ask me the numbers its all written in my book which is out in the shed.
