Melting Lead - fumes

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Originally Posted by kiwijames

HRV is crap. HEPA filter is the only filter I'm aware will filter lead particulate.

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You can get HEPA filters for HRV. "high-efficiency particulate absorbing"

eg https://www.filterspecialists.co.nz/...or-hrv-systems

HRV is just a cheap availible shape of filter that can be re-purposed.

Not sure on the lead particle size but even a coarse filter will remove some of it.

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Originally Posted by No.3

Don't put the range hood over the smelting pot, put it behind it so it's not pulling the fumes past your head but away from you. Wear a decent 3M 6200 type half face mask with good matching goggles or a P3 full face mask with the correct metal fume filters, and be bloody fastidious about water or moisture where you are working...

If you can find some fibrecement board, this makes a nice fume area and is perfectly good as a solid fume settling point that's quite permanent and if you have some hinges loafing you can set it up so that it just folds out and bridges the gap to the fume hood. The HRV or similar HEPA-rated filters you get from Bunnings or the like for the home ventilation units are good, but I'd use the metal filters in the range hood (pretty much non flammable if cleaned of fats) and then a section of ducting after the rangehood into a filter holder and by that stage (3-odd meters after the range hood) the fume should have either dropped into the ducting and settled or will get caught in the filter on the way out for later disposal. Discharge the outlet from the range hood over a pathway/driveway/back lawn area that is fairly 'dead' ground...

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The only risk with that is that the dust will sit in the ducts and motor creating a large contaminated zone where you can re-mobilise contaminants when changing filter etc. Lead fume can happen if you overheat the lead but oxides at smelting/fluxing are more likely a risk.

I would suggest that a proper P100 mask is the best protection but an extractor would seem better than nothing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by No.3

Don't put the range hood over the smelting pot, put it behind it so it's not pulling the fumes past your head but away from you. Wear a decent 3M 6200 type half face mask with good matching goggles or a P3 full face mask with the correct metal fume filters, and be bloody fastidious about water or moisture where you are working...

If you can find some fibrecement board, this makes a nice fume area and is perfectly good as a solid fume settling point that's quite permanent and if you have some hinges loafing you can set it up so that it just folds out and bridges the gap to the fume hood. The HRV or similar HEPA-rated filters you get from Bunnings or the like for the home ventilation units are good, but I'd use the metal filters in the range hood (pretty much non flammable if cleaned of fats) and then a section of ducting after the rangehood into a filter holder and by that stage (3-odd meters after the range hood) the fume should have either dropped into the ducting and settled or will get caught in the filter on the way out for later disposal. Discharge the outlet from the range hood over a pathway/driveway/back lawn area that is fairly 'dead' ground...

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Yes! Good advice..and I have exactly the pieces to do it left over from builder over ordering surfeit materials.

I don't have dead ground close enough to use hence a buried drum with scoria cover and bottom drainage..on a hillside bank so water not a prob. Would not need cleaning in my lifetime.

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Originally Posted by johnd

Do we need to talk about water introduction to the crucible? :pacman:

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Haven't experienced it ( yet), read plenty about it, will be taking care to avoid :)

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Originally Posted by 300CALMAN

The only risk with that is that the dust will sit in the ducts and motor creating a large contaminated zone where you can re-mobilise contaminants when changing filter etc. Lead fume can happen if you overheat the lead but oxides at smelting/fluxing are more likely a risk.

I would suggest that a proper P100 mask is the best protection but an extractor would seem better than nothing.

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Some dust will get past the filters. But removing the filters to clean from a range hood won't necessarily disturb settled dust past them. Wearing gloves and mask to clean would certainly be the go. I have a near new mask that has the trade quality rubber nose cup and side replaceable filter elements. Has elements for paint spraying and shop dust etc at the mo. I need to source new elements suitable for chemical dust/fumes as @No.3 recommends.

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Originally Posted by 300CALMAN

You can get HEPA filters for HRV. "high-efficiency particulate absorbing"

eg https://www.filterspecialists.co.nz/...or-hrv-systems

HRV is just a cheap availible shape of filter that can be re-purposed.

Not sure on the lead particle size but even a coarse filter will remove some of it.

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You could stick your dick in an HRV but it still would be shit. HRV don't make filters, they make ventilation systems and ridiculous claims. is my font large enough?

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Originally Posted by kiwijames

You could stick your dick in an HRV but it still would be shit. HRV don't make filters, they make ventilation systems and ridiculous claims. is my font large enough?

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:P OK so something went funny with my editing.
How does this sound "find a generic HEPA filter to adapt to your extraction system, one designed to fit a home ventilation system may be suitable".
@kiwijames is that advice ok by you?

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Originally Posted by 300CALMAN

The only risk with that is that the dust will sit in the ducts and motor creating a large contaminated zone where you can re-mobilise contaminants when changing filter etc. Lead fume can happen if you overheat the lead but oxides at smelting/fluxing are more likely a risk.

I would suggest that a proper P100 mask is the best protection but an extractor would seem better than nothing.

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Yep exactly - the risk of remobilising waste happens regardless of where the filter is every time you change it. The point about moving it a length of ducting away from the range hood is allowing time for any piping hot metallic dusts that get through the metal filters on the range hood to cool otherwise hot stuff hit flammable filter material with air getting forced through it and it bark like a little doggy - whooof. Oops. Was involved in this cluster once - not my deal but was a little exciting when the Apollo 13 - level jury rigging for the filter to the back of the rangehood went up in sympathy with the smouldering filter and the on/off system was at the other end of the power cord 25m away. Lessons were learned that day haha...

Best option is the range hood to take the worst away from you which means the smoke components containing all the toxic crap don't get on you, with the mask protecting your lungs. Hygiene measures after that should mean you aren't putting yourself at risk from the job, that and not getting the melt too hot.

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Originally Posted by 300CALMAN

:P OK so something went funny with my editing.
How does this sound "find a generic HEPA filter to adapt to your extraction system, one designed to fit a home ventilation system may be suitable".
@kiwijames is that advice ok by you?

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Yes for the font
No for the concept but it's got merit. I'd expect a domestic ventilation system would not have sufficient Pa to maintain flow especially if discharged into a drum.

You worry too much. When casting lead for bullets (or sinkers) with your Lee casting pot or similiar, you will not be able to get lead anywhere near hot enough to make "lead fumes". You are not going to get lead poisoning from the smell. If your mate got lead poisoning it's because he ingested it. You have to eat lead to get poisoned by it.

I expect cartridge reloading would result in more lead poisoning simply due to the soot on empty cases getting on your hands and then eating lunch. But no one is worrying about that. Not even me to be honest.

It's the crap on the lead you need to worry about, paint, glue fumes oxides and road crap if using wheel weights. It's not just lead thats the issue when you melt it.

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Originally Posted by JohnDuxbury

You worry too much. When casting lead for bullets (or sinkers) with your Lee casting pot or similiar, you will not be able to get lead anywhere near hot enough to make "lead fumes". You are not going to get lead poisoning from the smell. If your mate got lead poisoning it's because he ingested it. You have to eat lead to get poisoned by it.

I expect cartridge reloading would result in more lead poisoning simply due to the soot on empty cases getting on your hands and then eating lunch. But no one is worrying about that. Not even me to be honest.

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Ahhhhh common sense at last, burnt the fumes, do it in a well ventilated area, outside if you’re paranoid.
Just be careful, you know, common sense works good. Don’t argue with a 73 yr old who’s melted lead all his life, pistol shooting and black powder:D

To be fair maca lead poisoning puts you on the track to insanity.....oh look irritability is another symptom :)

@Jhon
Your making a mountain out of a mole hill.
Unless you are casting say,,,,twice weekly all you need is a well ventilated area. Under a verandah or a shed that has a couple of doors open with a breeze at your back is fine. Your treating your casting as if you were doing it 40hrs a week.

During or after casting wash your hands before you eat or smoke. If your worried about very young children wash your clothes separately and keep children well away. Should do that anyway.

If your worried talk to your Dr and arrange for a blood test every 6 months.

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Originally Posted by Oldbloke

@Jhon
Your making a mountain out of a mole hill.
Unless you are casting say,,,,twice weekly all you need is a well ventilated area. Under a verandah or a shed that has a couple of doors open with a breeze at your back is fine. Your treating your casting as if you were doing it 40hrs a week.

During or after casting wash your hands before you eat or smoke. If your worried about very young children wash your clothes separately and keep children well away. Should do that anyway.

If your worried talk to your Dr and arrange for a blood test every 6 months.

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Ya think?

I expect to do several consecutive days smelting and casting..then nothing for a while, then repeat. I'm setting up a personal facility in its own space that I can work in at any time picking up where I last left off. I have a lot of lead material to reduce to clean ingots. I want to teach my grandkids how to make their own cast bullets and yes, I'm aware of lead poisoning impacting growing kids. It would be easy to just tell them to sod off. Better tho to teach them how to do it safely as possible. No I don't plan to go commercial. But I've been buying projectiles several thousand at a time annually. When they are available. I'd like to not have to, to have tge option. .Will I save money? Probably not. Will I find it rewarding? Absolutely. Do I want a clean well thought out setup to work in? Yes I do. I'm also not that interested in running off for blood tests 6 monthly.

I have the opportunity to set up a decent safe as reasonably possible workspace and thats what I'm going to do. Allowing for fumes are just a part of it. I may never get things hot enough to produce lead fumes. But I am not so keen on filling my lungs with fluxing fumes either. Ingestion of powder etc is another issue. Molten lead splashes a further thing to prevent. Etc and so on.

Making a mountain? Overthinking it? Maybe. But thinking about it at the planning and design stage is probably better than after a blood test that I don't want to have to have shows I've got a problem. Of course i could just heat some lead in a saucepan over an open fire and have at it. But I'm going to put in a bench with a smelting and pouring station that is under cover, well lighted and ventilated, safe from accidentally burning shit I don't need burned, with cheap overhead extraction etc etc. And if I pull "potential fumes" from one area I don't wish to concentrate them onto the tomato plants or into the outdoor BBQ area.

So that's me. Its good to hear different strokes from different folks. Why I asked. I'm taking note of the inputs and there have been a couple of useful ones. In due course I'll do an update to this thread of where I get to. Cheers.