Anyone had any experience with larger .308cal Berger's at lower speeds on animals. ~1800-1600fps.
Are Amax's more reliable?
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Anyone had any experience with larger .308cal Berger's at lower speeds on animals. ~1800-1600fps.
Are Amax's more reliable?
Shot a tahr at 330, and a deer at 280. Both shots were shoulder or crease. Didn't recover the tahr, but the deer both had 2in. + exit wounds and considerable internal damage. That was with 185VLD's with a muzzle velocity of 2550ish. not sure what that equates to at 280-330, faster than 1800 I'd guess.
be interested as well as I get the 180VLD shooting better than the 162 amax.... yet to try the 168VLD.
I know th 140VLD opens big holes going fast but didn't try distance
(all 7mm)
Yes well I was running some numbers this morning in Quick Load and JBM and I get a similar amount of drop (~+or- 1 moa) at 600yards with all bullet weights from 155gr Amax to 210gr Berger out of a 18" barreled 308Win. However wind drift is almost 2moa less at the same distance with a 10mph cross wind with the heavier ones... As long as theykill I wouldn't have any issues using super heavy projectiles...
I think the Amax is more reliable yes, however the performance of a VLD for eg has more to do with rpm in my opinion.
Same bullet at same impact speed kills better with a faster twist.
I'll dig out some figures etc I did a while ago
Based on my limited experience with the VLD's in a few calibres I'd say 1,800fps is about minimum impact speed you'd want. Even then you often see dirt kicked up in the background making you think that you missed before the animal starts stumbling then collaspes. Hmmm interesting that Spanners mentions that a faster twist may improve bullet terminal performance - I'm building my next 7mm with a 1-8" twist barrel for this very reason. It will be interesting to see if there is any significant diference in on game person with say a 180gr VLD in a 1-9" twist vs a 1-8" twist.
That was the difference between average kills and great kills all other things being the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by LJP
I used the 7mm 180's in my 7mmRUM on goats and had a few pencil holes at 3 to 400 meters, goat would run 100 meters and drop dead, I also shot a few spikers at 630 odd meters and they all took no more than 3 steps. They didnt have huge wounds 2 inch exits sort of thing but plenty of internal damage.
Barrel twist crzyman?
I also am interested, but in 140g 6.5.
Amaxes have tended to blow up, blow up, and blow up at all velocities, so dont know where to start with the new caliber
Chris
One mans Blow up is another mans perfect performance.AND one mans perfect performance is another mans pencil threw.Quote:
Originally Posted by crnkin
I find it Hard to believe you have had all amaxes blow up at any range or velocity.
To me a blow up is a big messy surface wound about 1 to 2 foot in diameter that completely failed to penetrate vitals.Just like I had twice last roar on the same muddy stag at 50-80y with a sst launched at a leisurely 2750fps.
Amax has been more reliable to date,close or farish but I still have barnes in the mag for bush after the above experience
You never pushed them fast enough to blow up:O_O:Quote:
Originally Posted by crnkin
An that deer i remember you telling me you lost that was hit hard with the 208gr at 350m?? my 243 still puts them down past that, deer are week an soft, tahr maybe id believe but would be through more with them been tough an soaking it up than "blow up", my 162 a-max have an do still pass through tahr out to 850m that i have shot...........will be testing firther with baldbob in may ay cam:thumbsup:
Quote:
Originally Posted by veitnamcam
Amen to that, i use them for everything close to far an only had to put 2 into 4 animals an they where tahr at range that where not hit in the right spot so needed the 2nd that put them down
Me too.Quote:
Originally Posted by crnkin
But the slower the impact velocity the more likely a pass through is? Maybe you wrote that backwards.Quote:
Originally Posted by tui_man2
I've shot quite a few goats now with them, and although some were bang flops, all of them were complete bullet failures.
The diameter of the blow up would have been about 8-10 inches, penetration would be say 1/3 of a goat tops, like 4 inches, definitely no exit wound, not a shit show.
A couple of the goats were running away with vitals hanging out, then loss of blood made them faint, die etc.
This is all at 2700 fps, ranges from 20y-450y.
The goats down here aren't big either, ive never seen horns over a foot. I had exactly the same experience with the 140g SST's, and Adam did too as far as I know.
I think the 208's ideal impact velocity would be 1600-2000 fps, a pretty small range, but obviously depends on the animal too, a bigger animal can have a slower impact velocity and vise versa.
Just my take on it. I've seen the 300g hybrid bergers perform side by side with my amax, same animal, same shooting position, same velocity, perfect expansion and loss of jacket on the 300g, and over 2 feet of penetration from the core. Amax exploded immediately.
Amazing those 300g bergers, amazing.
Chris
Taht shouldnt go in the same sentnce:DQuote:
Originally Posted by crnkin
That cham for example still had pass through easy with 2320fps according to my cal, i havnt had very many maybe 4 or 5 animals that have never exited 2 where reds shot front on just over 650m an both pilss got stuck in the rear end so still almost passed through the long length:)
The 105gr amax in 243 passes through goats an drops them like flys..........
Next tahr trip ill cut them up an do some dirty photos
Oh fo sho,
I have seen many, many photos of the amax's performing from .243 up to .284, but my 208's seem to fail miserably.
I have about 800 amaxes here in 3 different calibers now, I definitely have some faith left, and will test them in my 6.5x284 and 7mm08 one day!
Chris
What twist were you running with the amax's..... I know some don't do to well driven hard in fast twist rifles......Can make a huge difference in the end result to the point some cant run them.Quote:
Originally Posted by crnkin
Its a 10 twist 300 win mag, going 2700.
I never had an exit hole, on any animal it ever shot, which wasn't that many, maybe 30 odd goats, 4 chamois, one deer that I lost, far too many rabbits to admit to.
Chris
I had them (208 1:10) exit on goats fine.... some with half the internals as well but never used the RUM on deer. From memory they were doing around 3K, Now have a 1:13 twist barrel and flinging the 168 amax at 3540 but not shot anything other than targets with it but it will be interesting to see how they hold up on goats...could be messy :PQuote:
Originally Posted by crnkin
Hmmmm.
I put close to 400 rounds down that thing, it shot so well but the bullet performance was way off, the stock was average and it wasn't light enough for my fat spare tyre to handle, so I sold it anyway.
I think the jackets on the 208's could be like the 140 SST's in .270, just a bit too thin.
I invested in barnes for all my guns last week, they will be fine, but I still have heaps of amax and some bergers here to try too, but I think at the end of the day its about using the right tool for the job. Bergers and Amax just aren't ideal for close up shots.
Chris
The barnes will exit;) just be aware that as they dont fragment(unless you can get some bloody amazing speed out of em) placement is as or more important than with a frangible pill. The advantage is you can put it where you want it almost regardless of what is in the way.(bone guts etc)
I once witnessed two large hinds shot with the old non tipped barnes. They were about 20y apart and lined up perfectly. On the crease lung shot on both of them from one round,found just under skin on off side of second one. They both went 15-20 yards