Thread: My first load development

So I shot my first ladder test today.
Some promising results with one load looking like a goer.
This load is half a grain below book max. Can some of you more experienced loaders tell me if the primers look ok it are they getting too flat?


Groups shot

Best load is second column from the left.
[GLOW][/GLOW]

I don't see any flat primers and your 27 grain load look great.

Looks fine. I quite often find as you increase the charge the group tightens up. I would be inclined to find out what near max is first, you will start seeing an extractor imprint on the head of the brass and the bolt will become tighter to lift. At this point or just before is generally when the magic starts happening.
Stated book maximum is only a guide as some rifles may reach this a lot earlier and the manufacturer needs to cover there arse. Its not unusual for a good load to be a couple of grains over.
It's great to ask others on here if they are using the same combo you want to use so to give a guide.
Enjoy

@Remmodel7, welcome to the wonderful world of reloading.

Your primers look fine, the outer edges are still nice and round.

Primers are not really a very good indication of pressure. Quite often due to poor headspace, the bottom of the case slams back into the bolt face, resulting in what looks like flat primers, but there is no real pressure issue with the load.

The other thing that catches people out is that guys will see "cratered firing pin strike" when in fact it is nothing more than an oversized firing pin hole in the bolt face.

The thing I use that is a real indicator of pressure is heavy/sticky bolt lift.

Originally Posted by Remmodel7

So I shot my first ladder test today.
Some promising results with one load looking like a goer.
This load is half a grain below book max. Can some of you more experienced loaders tell me if the primers look ok it are they getting too flat?
Attachment 168296
Attachment 168297
Groups shot
Attachment 168298
Best load is second column from the left.
[GLOW]Attachment 168299[/GLOW]

Greetings Remmodel7,
As a first time load developer I suggest that you load a small batch at 27 grains and go hunting with it. You can test other loads later. If you can get your load chronographed you can then compare your velocity with your load data (adjusting for barrel length) to see if your components match theirs. This will give an indication of pressure. Gazing at the fired primers will tell you nothing other than one load may be hotter than another and possibly not even that. Ejector marks on the case head tell you that you have gone too far already for your brass. Additionally one three shot group tells you little about the long term accuracy of a load. The average of three groups of three shots each will tell you more. One last thing buy yourself a decent load manual for the projectiles or powder that you use. Some of the older ones from around 30 years ago are good as well. Treat everything you read on the internet including U tube with suspicion unless verified by the load development sections of the manual.
Periodically someone on the forum blows up a rifle due to an overload. The honest ones own up to it, the others perhaps not. Go slowly and make sure you don't go down that road. Happy to answer questions. The Grendel is a great cartridge, wish I had one.
Regards Grandpamac.

Lots of potential showing there...nice work.

Solid work, Let the addiction begin!

There is one piece of brass there, middle row 3rd that has an ejector Mark. Probably no biggie as those around it all look fine.
Keep an eye on signs like that though.
Good luck

Cheers for the help guys.
My load is for the 6.5 Grendel in a howa mini.
123gr eldm 2.280” ( mag length so not sure how far off the lands)
27gr bench mark 2
I think I will load up a few more of the 27 gr loads. I don't have a Chrono but can work it out using applied ballistics although I can't get my es using this.
If I'm happy with the velocity I may leave it at that otherwise I'll keep going up

Originally Posted by Noswal

There is one piece of brass there, middle row 3rd that has an ejector Mark. Probably no biggie as those around it all look fine.
Keep an eye on signs like that though.
Good luck

faark you have good eyes..but yip you are correct,there is one there clear as day....

Don't worry about velocity just work on the accuracy work up a few 10ths of a grain and see it the accuracy improves or not, then shoot in at 200m and 300m
you can work out the velocity by the drop you get,
I am at Tokoroa if you want to chronograph your load we can go to the TSSC on a weekday if you like, Visitor Fee is $10 for the day
Cheers
Robert.

Notice there is one other case in the 27gr row that has ejector mark too. Think I will just stick around there for a few more loads. I'll shoot a few more groups and shoot at range to work out drop and velocity

Beg, borrow, or buy a chronograph. Without it you’re loading in the dark. As far as I’m aware velocity is the closest approximation to pressure we have. With traditional pressure signs you won’t know if you’re actually over pressure or it’s something else. And when you do see them you’ll could be in excess of 70kpsi. Even with traditional load data you won’t know if you rifle is running under/over pressure or the burn rate on the powder has changed from when the data was published.

Originally Posted by Remmodel7

Notice there is one other case in the 27gr row that has ejector mark too. Think I will just stick around there for a few more loads. I'll shoot a few more groups and shoot at range to work out drop and velocity

@Remmodel7 if you haven't decapping those cases yet could you stick up a photo of them.7

Another indicator that you may be pushing the envelop is loosening primer pockets after only a few firings. This can happen without the extractor wipe or ejector plunger ring appearing. A warning nevertheless.

Primer pockets can be quite tight when the cases are new and will loosen up a bit after firing. If however the primers become super easy to seat there may be a pressure issue.

Otherwise, as stated, try and chrony your loads and compare against a couple of reloading manuals. Taking into account your barrel length.

Also, as pointed out, sadly one 3 shot "group" does not constitute game over. I only ever fire 3 shot strings at the early stages of load development and that is to get a feel for velocities. A series of 5 shot groups is my method. With the strings with progressive increases of charge many times I have jumped a charge and gone to the next charge up because I know the velocities are so low and don't wish to waste components. Those loads come home and are stripped.

I am not a huge fan of ladder testing. Old habits/methods are hard to quit.

Originally Posted by zimmer

@Remmodel7 if you haven't decapping those cases yet could you stick up a photo of them.7

Another indicator that you may be pushing the envelop is loosening primer pockets after only a few firings. This can happen without the extractor wipe or ejector plunger ring appearing. A warning nevertheless.

Primer pockets can be quite tight when the cases are new and will loosen up a bit after firing. If however the primers become super easy to seat there may be a pressure issue.

Otherwise, as stated, try and chrony your loads and compare against a couple of reloading manuals. Taking into account your barrel length.

Also, as pointed out, sadly one 3 shot "group" does not constitute game over. I only ever fire 3 shot strings at the early stages of load development and that is to get a feel for velocities. A series of 5 shot groups is my method. With the strings with progressive increases of charge many times I have jumped a charge and gone to the next charge up because I know the velocities are so low and don't wish to waste components. Those loads come home and are stripped.

I am not a huge fan of ladder testing. Old habits/methods are hard to quit.

Yes realize one group is not definitive but I have to start somewhere. Plan on loading a few more, Checking velocity and looking for pressure signs at that load.
How do people calculate velocity change compared to book data from a 26" barrel in the load data to my 20” barrel?