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It seems like Winchester will e giving the .270 faithful a new short magnum cartridge in .277 calibre. The 6.8 Western is a slightly shorter case at 51.30 mm than the .270 WSM and designed to shoot 175 gn projectiles in a 1:8 twist barrel at 2840 Fps. Cartridges are loaded to 65 000 PSI.
There are more details and diagrams at this link
https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads...2020-11-01.pdf
and where pray tell me are they intending to GET 175grn .277 cal projectiles from?????
it would be far far far better if they talked nosler into poking a plastic tip into the 160grn partition that we all can use anyway.....
Im trying really really hard to see why they decide this is good idea..... really hard.
folks dribble on about how great a 280AI is but no one will suggest AI the std 270 win is good idea...... funny,same case and very similar projectile,sure there is better selection on .284 projectiles around...but there are some plenty good .277 ones.
mind you,having some 1;8 twist barrels around the show would give interesting options....
This sounds cool.
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A take on 6.8 PRC would have been better :on fire:
I'd guess that Winchester must be talking to someone who makes high BC pills presently. More to follow i guess.
Greetings All,
The curmudgeon here. The 6.8 Western or the .270 Winchester slightly shorter magnum as I will call it will give little more than a standard .270 Win with a fast twist barrel. Speer got slightly under 2,800 fps with their 170 grain round nose in their no 9 manual. Interesting that the case has been shortened to about the same length as the 7mm SAUM. Probably to allow the long pointy projectiles to be seated in short actions. We got by for about 50 years with only two .270 calibre cartridges but I have lost count of how many have popped up in the last 20 years or so. Still, I suppose that new sells for a little while at least.
Regards Grumpamac.
Grandpamac time marches onQuote:
Originally Posted by grandpamac
The original 270 is five hundred years old and so are the rifles chambered in it. Those old rifles need reduced factory loads. So the original has had its wings clipped.
In real numbers and in practice in the field, a teency weency little itty bitty 6.5 case not much bigger than a 22-250 case will send a 140gr pill downrange and leave the 270 for dead ballistically. The rather enormous 270 case with all that recoil with 130gr pill is actually quite gutless by comparison.
People have worked out that a light pill with a low BC doing 3200ft/sec is actually quite feeble compared to a heavy, high BC pill doing 2800ft/sec and the barrel lasts longer.
The old 270s performance was largely cosmetic.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
Dont Berger do a 175 vld? Elite hunter maybe I remember I looked into them for wsm but twist was wrong
Isnt that one of the big issues? The twist rate?
A couple of heavier projectiles but vast majority of 270s twist is marginal for them
Ice found the same thing researching for the 264win mag
Standard is 1-9 but the later long range projectiles need quicker which ironically slower calibres like the creedmore do have the quicker twist which gives makes them ballistically better a long way out even though they are up to 300fps slower
Greetings All,
At least the 6.8 mm Western has a twist suitable for high BC projectiles. For far too long US cartridges have been kneecapped with slow twists. A case could be made for 8 inches being the standard twist for all calibres up to and including .30 calibre.
Regards Grandpamac.
BUT when you up the twist AND the speed...you need to make projectiles harder or they blow apart...and when speed decreases they no longer expand properly...
catch 22
oh and SOME of us still use those wonderful speer 170grn round noses...or at least I will when have live poohseventy again....
I agree 1:8 twist is a sweet spot for twist rate. Todd Hodnett from Accuracy First stated he uses this in his rifle builds up to and including 308w.Quote:
Originally Posted by grandpamac
MD,
Amax, ELDM’s and Berger pills don’t explode in my 1:8 twist 6.5 at close to 3000 fps so I reckon this will not be an issue at 2800 in the new round.
yeah Ive heard other folks say that too......and also other folks say they do..... Ive seen light jacketed rounds enter animal and totally fly to bits...but animal died so not bullet failure as such....
Ive seen what 130grn taipans do in std .270 winchester......they sure dont exit ANYTHING ...nor do hornady 110grn hps both in 1;10twist...now someone is bound to use something like them or speer spbt in new fast twist round and wonder why nothing hitting target....I just hope like hell projectile manufacturers DONT start making harder the rounds we already have....
the increase in rpm from a 1;10 to 1;8 twist will tear soft projectiles apart....they doing over 180,000 rpm now in std chamberings.
52gn berger hps behave less violently in 22-250 with 1;14 twist at 3600fps than they do in .223 1;10 twist at 3000 fps....so there is SOMETHING in it.....
180,000 rpm sounds like an dramatic way of describing it.
1:8 twist means the bullet will rotate about 500 revolutions over a distance of 100m.
1:10 twist means the bullet will rotate about 400 revolutions over a distance of 100m.
Passing through a deers chest, a typical bullet will only rotate 1.5 to 2 times.
Not that extreme really.
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This sounds a good idea. I don't like those cartridges which are just too long to fit in a 308 length action with a heavy bullet and this goes a way to addressing that. Plus a standard fast twist in factory rifles and higher pressure specs which assume you have a new, heavy duty action. Similar recent cartridges are the 300PRC, 6.5 Cr and 6mmARC, which make the 300WinMag, 260 Rem and 6mmPPC into easily useable commercial hunting and long range target rounds.
Not so good for people who already have a 270WSM. Poor support for Winchester's existing loyal customers. Has the 270WSM drifted into a handloaders' semi wildcat territory ? A real gap would be a replacement for the 7mmWSM, which never got established.
I like the idea of a truly 308 length 270 with the grunt of the traditional 27-06 or maybe even more.
Can someone tell us which is more economical in weight - a 3006 length/base diameter action or a WSM width/length one ?
Centrifugal force is what will tear the bullet to pieces the rotational speed doesn't sound that impressive over 100 metres but the bullet is experiencing over 2,000 gs on the outer jacket during that time and the faster it rotates the greater that gets till something gives.Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon
Gents,
This could be winchesters commercial offering from the NGSW program.
The US Army Next Gen Squad Weapon program https://taskandpurpose.com/military-...raining-video/ has selected 3 manufacturers.
Sig makes its own ammunition (277 Fury) with a steel case head and Textron uses caseless telescoping ammunition. GD might use Olin?
If Winchester want to make money they should have done a 6.5 WSM 24 months ago...
Isn't 284 Winchester the ticket? Should be golden since Lapua are going to make the correct brass for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagheera
The 284 isnt the ticket ,with the high bc 7mm bullets it is a medium /long action round .Despite being designed to be a short action round . The main reason it has become so popular is using a Tikka action which is a long action . The real handicap is most short actions only allow an overall length of 2.8 inches which is not the best length for seat out those longer bullets . The 284 win given it length is pain ,and what performance does it have over the 280 ?? The 6.5 prc size case is the new 284 and there are actions out there that fit it on the shelf .Will do any thing that any other long action round do like the 270/280 /30/06 ? no but it will fit in a short action . And it sounds like this is Winchesters attempt to match Hornady's PRC and use the fan base of the 270 to get it moving .Hornady if they are smart will counter it with a 7mm PRC and you have to admit it they have been very cleaver with their marketing .
The 284 is also a bit fat to fit well into 308 sized magazines.
Greetings Phil,Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil_H
Bliss Titus beat you to it by 50 years or more. The .270 Titus Savage is slightly shorter and has a 28 rather than 30 degree shoulder. It was brought out as a wildcat for the Savage 99 lever action prior to 1962. Cases were likely made from .300 Savage cases, a short necked 7.62 Creedmoor. Things don't change all that much do they?
Grandpamac.
Looks like the 270 wsm is headed to the scrap heap and we will see a wave of short fat cartridge's
https://www.1911forum.com/threads/6-...ridge.1028482/
Funny but it is the same overall length as the 6.5 prc bring on the 7mm prc and let the games begin
Nosler are now making a 165 grn LR Accubond for the fast twist .270Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
Greetings Phil,Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil_H
Got that right on the beautiful, free and abundant country. My cousin, who lives in San Francisco, and I have been exchanging Emails recently. He and his wife are used to doing lots of trips but the Covid disaster has put a giant sized kink in that. He has been confined to barracks for the duration and is staving of the looney bin by reading a history of Lord Nelson while I can go up to the Kaweka's when health and desire align. We are certainly in the box seat for this one. I am sure that my .308 is due for a walk up there soon.
Grandpamac.
Neck this thing up to 7mm and it looks like a perfect short action cartridge.
And you would have just reinvented the 7mm Remington SAUM give or take a few thou here and there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beetroot
Grandpamac.
I have 3 'go to' calibres depending on the requirement; .223 (63 years old), .30-06 (114 years old), and .338 Lapua Magnum (37 years old), all of them well sub-MOA in my rifles. I don't think the ammo marketers are going to make any inroads with me. If I need anything bigger it will be the .375 H&H Magnum (108 years old). Apart for some relatively minor powder improvements the has been bugger all advancement in firearms and ammunition in over 100 years. The rest is all marketing!
Hmm gundoc, I'm sensing a gap somewhere around the 120-143gr mark, 116yrs old.Quote:
Originally Posted by gundoc
I have tried 6.5x54MS, 6.5x55, and 7x57, all of which performed well, but the .223 and .30-06 give sufficient overlap to keep the choice manageable. I do have a small clump of other calibres but I chose the three with best performance over the widest range. The 250/300 is one I have never tried but I do like its offspring, the .22/250.Quote:
Originally Posted by jakewire
Yeah but it'd have a cool wizzbang name like 7-277 Western.Quote:
Originally Posted by grandpamac
You're funnyQuote:
Originally Posted by Phil_H
I might have to get one to fill the gap between my .270, .284 and 7RM. :thumbsup:
Anyone want to buy a CDL SF in .270?
Fancy a 6.5 instead.
That may be Remington speak for Custom Deluxe Laminated Stainless Fluted or something like it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil_H
Grandpamac.
You know what I like? Long actions. If you are willing to carry just a hint more action, then you can dear your projectiles to whatever you like.
There was a time when logic dictated that a small bullet launched by a huge case was easier to shoot because there would be less hold over required.
This was sound knowledge for decades till ballistics calculators became regularly available and people started shooting ordinary rifles in long range targets.
Turns out that little fast bullet has terrible aerodynamics and is like entering a van in a formula one race. They fly like a plane with no wings.
What in theory was a flat trajectory actually wasn't, relative to much slower, quieter things with less recoil, that didn't burn out barrels.
Thus, the myth of the flat shooting 270 died
I can hunt with a 303. Everything else is academic. But if you want to make real comparisons in real world shooting challenges, the new chamberings with fast twist barrels and ultra-aerodynamic projectiles are way easier to actually hit things with.
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It’s a Remington 700 Custom Deluxe Stainless Fluted with walnut stock.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire
Like this: https://images.app.goo.gl/DRU83L4VXA9rxwSQ6
you know the rules....how muchy?????
Mickey - I’m not desperate to sell it, but I also really don’t need it. I bought it for $1500 with a vgc DPT can and 1/2-28 tpi thread. It’s bedded and previous owner said around 200 rounds down the barrel. Bore has been thoroughly cleaned of copper and carbon and looks mint, but I never fired it. Bolt fit in the raceways and lug contact are very much better than other Remingtons I have owned. If anyone is keen I would pass it on for what I paid. It’s living with forum member Brenick while I am away in Aus working.Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
Cheers
Bought on a whim and I was planning on running 145 ELD-X and Superperformance at 3000 or close.