The new cartridge that makes the most sense to me.

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Originally Posted by Marty Henry

The Europeans were so far ahead of anyone else in this regard, 6x57 in 1895, 6.5x57 1893, 7x57 1882, 8 x57 1888 then there's the 9, 9.3, and 10.75 all on the same case. The widely used .473 case head diameter is also a Mauser original dimension.
Some things are so old they're new again.

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You could make a good case for the 7x64 Brenneke from 1917 being the father of the .270 which came out in 1925. Winchester certainly knew about the earlier cartridge. The 7x64 is still chambered today.

Actually if you look at the brenneke and Vom Hofe range of cartridges the new "wonderkinder" look pretty saggy. The 7 mm von hofe got 3300 fps with a 170 gr projectile, the rem mag and even the weatherby don't get closer than a couple of hundred fps if speed is your only goal

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Originally Posted by Marty Henry

Actually if you look at the brenneke and Vom Hofe range of cartridges the new "wonderkinder" look pretty saggy. The 7 mm von hofe got 3300 fps with a 170 gr projectile, the rem mag and even the weatherby don't get closer than a couple of hundred fps if speed is your only goal

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The Vom Hofe cartridge was similar and perhaps the same as the .280 Ross, perhaps the grandfather of all beltless magnums. It has been suggested that the V H velocities were achieved on a typewriter (mechanical word processor for the younger generation). Vom Hofe, Newton, Ross and others were the firebrand wildcatters of their age.
GPM.

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Originally Posted by whanahuia

Is the 25 creed more.

It's as close to filling a gap as is possible nowadays, and seems to likely be able to create a 25 cal following where the 06 and Roberts haven't. The new projectiles seem to have the high BCs asked for at a sensible hunting weight for NZ conditions.

From my perspective I think its a good idea, and that's recognising that I'm very often critical of many of the new cartridge developments as unnecessary.

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Only line that matters.

That brass tube that rifle manufacturers and their marketeers make such a fuss over is simply a bullet delivery system.

Prime concerns should be-

1. How good is the bullet?
2. Is it readily available? (I.E not a Berger or Nosler made unobtanium or first-born child price)
3. Will it be accommodated by the 'standard' twist-rate (or large manufacturer offered) in a certain chambering?
4. Is it easy to acquire a rifle that will accommodate the above?

Worth nothing that the 25CM is popular in PRS and NRL Hunter competitions in the states, simply because it offers a slight edge over the 6.5 CM if you are shooting a 'power-factor' ranked competition (NRL Hunter). The first high-BC VLD type bullet was the 131 Blackjack bullet, made on contract by Sierra, who in turn decided not to fulfil the company's orders in order to swipe the design and market for themselves (another company whose bullets I will no longer use, due to their habit of putting a wrong cal into the box every so often...)

So, that leaves Hornady who decided to offer 25 CM brass in 2025. However, there does seem to be a slight disagreement in spec between a few brass manufacturers (Starline, Hornady and Alpha Munitions), namely in neck length.

I had sourced some 25 CM bullets and brass but decided to ditch in the end in favour of 6.5CM, glad I did!

Greetings again,
I looked up the article on the 250 Savage Improved. It was written by Layne Simpson and he had a barrel made for a switch barrel Varmint master action in 1981. Comparing Layne's cartridge and the 25 Creedmoor showed little difference with the Creedmoor having slightly less body taper. Layne had gone with a 30 degree shoulder rather than the Ackley version for ease of feeding. Length to the base of the neck was identical. The big difference was the barrel twist of 10" rather than somewhere around 8" for the Creedmoor.
So there we have it. The .25 Creedmoor existed over 40 years back, it just wasn't called that.
Regards Grandpamac.

And that must be why it never caught on.

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Originally Posted by grandpamac

Greetings again,
I looked up the article on the 250 Savage Improved. It was written by Layne Simpson and he had a barrel made for a switch barrel Varmint master action in 1981. Comparing Layne's cartridge and the 25 Creedmoor showed little difference with the Creedmoor having slightly less body taper. Layne had gone with a 30 degree shoulder rather than the Ackley version for ease of feeding. Length to the base of the neck was identical. The big difference was the barrel twist of 10" rather than somewhere around 8" for the Creedmoor.
So there we have it. The .25 Creedmoor existed over 40 years back, it just wasn't called that.
Regards Grandpamac.

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Which all goes to show the is no gap waiting to be filled by advertising executives.
There are just
Better bullets
Better barrels
Better rifles
Better scopes ...

.25 sav like .22/250 will be a case stretcher. One adv for the cm version.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Beetroot

I'm guessing he was referred to the hybrid case technology, as opposed to the shortened case.

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Yeah the case is cool, I read somewhere that the hybrid round costs the military US$5.00 each
what would retail be?

Federal are releasing a new 7mm tomorrow US time called the 7mm Backcountry

Bit of a revue Here

It’s finally here….https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads...2025-01-27.pdf

Whats wrong with using new better bc pills in an existing 25 06 or 257 roberts other than they are old fashioned

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Originally Posted by blip

Whats wrong with using new better bc pills in an existing 25 06 or 257 roberts other than they are old fashioned

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Same as most old clambering, not enough twist to stabilize the modern boolits

Plus freebore length doesn’t suit the higher BC bullets. Often the freebore diameter of those chambers isn’t ideal either.

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Originally Posted by grandpamac

Greetings again,
I looked up the article on the 250 Savage Improved. It was written by Layne Simpson and he had a barrel made for a switch barrel Varmint master action in 1981. Comparing Layne's cartridge and the 25 Creedmoor showed little difference with the Creedmoor having slightly less body taper. Layne had gone with a 30 degree shoulder rather than the Ackley version for ease of feeding. Length to the base of the neck was identical. The big difference was the barrel twist of 10" rather than somewhere around 8" for the Creedmoor.
So there we have it. The .25 Creedmoor existed over 40 years back, it just wasn't called that.
Regards Grandpamac.

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Apart from the fact that brass and bullets have improved several fold since then.

The real revolution has been shooting a high (and consistent) BC bullet at a speed between 2650-2800 and watching your bullet trace to see hits. Add the beneficial effects of a moderator/supressor or brake and the effect is compounded.

Having a light bullet screaming along at 3k+ fps only to miss, make a huge noise and heat your barrel up to mirage point in one shot is pointless.