Thread: Old Powder

Greetings All,
I have been sorting out some handloading stuff for a friend who is shifting house. Among the packets of old cases, some loaded there were about 8 cans of powder, some unopened. There was a recent part pottle of AR2208 so that was put aside as probably OK. Next were 6 cans of various Dupont powders. A bit of sleuth work in my library of gunny books showed that the older 4 were packed somewhere between 1960 and 1975 so they were quite old. A part can of IMR4227 had a label for both dollars ($6.10) and pounds so this was around 1967. There were a part and full can of IMR3031 so I poured the powder rom the part can out into a clean plastic tray and examined the inside of the can finding no sign of rust. Next the unopened can of IMR3031 was poured out into a separate tray. Inside the can there were granules of powder stuck to the inside of the can and there was a light film of rust over the inside of the can. Hmmm. Finally the two more recent cans of IMR4831 that was packed in 1987 were opened. Both had rust on the inside of the neck so I didn't even bother tipping them out.
So what were the learnings from all this? We need to be really careful how we store our powder supplies and suspicious of any old powder we may encounter. Most rifle powder has a long life if stored carefully. I am still using the last dregs of 1mr4064 packed in 1979 but this has been stored in a wooden cupboard placed low on the cool side of a partly lined garage and not on an open shelf in a red hot to damp tin shed. We all have to be especially vigilant about any opened containers of powder we may be given as what is on the label may not be what is in the can or may have been contaminated in some way. Even unopened cans should be viewed with suspicion as we don't know how it has been stored.
The powder drought of the last few years now appears to be easing so there is no need to use any suspect powder. So why did I go to all the trouble I did? Partly due to my distaste for waste and partly to learn something. I was successful on the second of those at least.
Regards Grandpamac.

It's interesting that we are a bit vigilant re bulk powder but perhaps less so with loaded ammunition. Plenty of 80 or so years old mil surplus ammunition keeps appearing and getting used.

Which of the powder lots passed the sniff test (the most significant one for me)?

Originally Posted by rupert

Which of the powder lots passed the sniff test (the most significant one for me)?

None of the powders had an acrid smell but none had an acetone smell either that you get with fresh powder. Checking some new powder did not smell that strong either so perhaps that is me. I have run across a few batches of degraded powder over the years, often AR2201. The first sign seems to be clumping of the powder combined with some corrosion inside the can or cartridge case. The powder may look moist. Later you may get some red dusty stuff in the powder. In any case if in doubt chuck it out.
GPM.

Are you going to use the 3031?

Greetings @nor-west,
No I have already spread it under the trees. It is just not worth the risk. Powder that has started to deteriorate will continue to do so once loaded. I have broken down handloads like this and the powder is clumped ant the inside of the cases corroded.
Regards GPM.

I was going to put up a separate post re some powders given to me today. This might be just as good.
Can of 4831, large granules.
Hercules unique.
Nobel no 1 and 2 rifle powders.
I wanted some powder for my 22 hornet and that's what arrived. So, anything there that I might be able to use?
Cheers.

Originally Posted by SmokeyJason

I was going to put up a separate post re some powders given to me today. This might be just as good.
Can of 4831, large granules.
Hercules unique.
Nobel no 1 and 2 rifle powders.
I wanted some powder for my 22 hornet and that's what arrived. So, anything there that I might be able to use?
Cheers.

4831 is definately useful.....

Please stop spreading powder under trees guys!

Send it to mr 40mm and ill dispose of it in a much more interesting way!

Might even have some beers for you!

Originally Posted by 40mm

Please stop spreading powder under trees guys!

Send it to mr 40mm and ill dispose of it in a much more interesting way!

Might even have some beers for you!

Exactly, I would of used it.

Originally Posted by 40mm

Please stop spreading powder under trees guys!

Send it to mr 40mm and ill dispose of it in a much more interesting way!

Might even have some beers for you!

Yes I'm with you. I use a lot of old powders. Nobel Rifle powders are great..I recently finished a green tin of Rifle No.1 made in the 1930s..loaded 243 for myself and two others..excellent performer..I have original data for Nobel Rifle and Pistol powder if anyone needs it. I am currently shooting IPSC in 9mm with Pistol No. 2 from 1970s. Ive rescued old powders from several sources including Winchester, ADI, IMR, Dupont , Olin, Mulwex, etc etc. Even
Vihtavuori!

Never had to throw one out yet. Yes I carefully inspect. I believe a lot of the "caution" expressed in the past about using old powders has been driven by retailers wanting to sell new. Not a lot to do with the old powder actuually being usable or not. Its healthy to be cautious. If your concerned or in doubt stop right there. But don't just toss it out. Send it to me, at the very least I'll test it for ya. . Especially 3031

Originally Posted by Jhon

Yes I'm with you. I use a lot of old powders. Nobel Rifle powders are great..I recently finished a green tin of Rifle No.1 made in the 1930s..loaded 243 for myself and two others..excellent performer..I have original data for Nobel Rifle and Pistol powder if anyone needs it. I am currently shooting IPSC in 9mm with Pistol No. 2 from 1970s. Ive rescued old powders from several sources including Winchester, ADI, IMR, Dupont , Olin, Mulwex, etc etc. Even
Vihtavuori!

Never had to throw one out yet. Yes I carefully inspect. I believe a lot of the "caution" expressed in the past about using old powders has been driven by retailers wanting to sell new. Not a lot to do with the old powder actuually being usable or not. Its healthy to be cautious. If your concerned or in doubt stop right there. But don't just toss it out. Send it to me, at the very least I'll test it for ya. . Especially 3031

Hi @Jhon
Would you mind posting that data?

I just saved 9 to.10 lb of nobels no 9 today bit of back ground it was x cac and the dude who ran turoa cartridge company bought a tonne or so and used to load 38sp and 357 mag for the police my old buddy used to shoot with him he said it was a dirty powder and turoa labelled it as PB 10 any one want to try it will be cheap as but pick up porirua shame to waste on garden and it still looks good

Originally Posted by 40mm

Please stop spreading powder under trees guys!

Send it to mr 40mm and ill dispose of it in a much more interesting way!

Might even have some beers for you!

About 1/3 tin here.
If you look close there is a couple of green flakes.
Green dot?
Or just the fact that its 40 years old.
you are welcome to it - I am work in Warkworth industrial area. You could come and get if you are passing by.
I don't mind popping it in a courier bag.
I got it along with a MEC Junior for free.
I'm never going to use it.

Originally Posted by bobbydazzler

About 1/3 tin here.
If you look close there is a couple of green flakes.
Green dot?
Or just the fact that its 40 years old.
you are welcome to it - I am work in Warkworth industrial area. You could come and get if you are passing by.
I don't mind popping it in a courier bag.
I got it along with a MEC Junior for free.
I'm never going to use it.

Attachment 241036

Thats great powder if in good nick..Nobel did not to my knowledge publish Pistol load data for it..I have developed loads for 45 ACP, 45 Colt, 44mag and 44- 40 using Red Dot or ASN30 data as a starting point. Work up carefully..ive had no issues with lower loads but it pressure peaks quickly at or near max load. It is currently my goto load for 45ACP and meters fine from my Dillon 550b. In 30 cal rifle I use it for reduced loads starting around 8gn, max definitely is 13gn. 10-12gn will you in the 1400fps to 1600fps range depending on bullet weight and calibre across 308, 303B and 30-30 Win. No filler used.