Thread: Percussion caps !

I'm having an issue with my muzzleloader slow firing and a couple of miss fires when the cap went off but didn't ignite the charge !

Using CCI #11s

Was previously using Holy Smoke FFFG black powder and no issues
I have started using Triple 7 FFFG powder because its easier for in the field on multi day hunts.
But since I have started using the Triple 7 I have been having the slow fires when there are 2 quite distinct noises of the primer and then the charge.
Plus I have had 2 complete miss fires where the charge hasn't gone off. One at a reasonable red stag !!

I'm picking that the Triple 7 needs more ignition than the Black Powder and I need a hotter percussion cap ?
Going away this weekend on a multi day fly in Tahr trip and was still keen to go with the Triple 7 for ease of use.
But will fall back to Black Powder just as happily if I have to ( more drama, more smoke and just a little bit more of an issue to clean etc ).

I note that CCI does a magnum #11 cap But can't see any available in CHCH
I also note that Gun City have a Dynamit Nobel VZ #1075 percussion ( assume its a #11 ) cap available and wonder if anyone has used that and if its rated as Magnum or hotter than the CCIs ?
Can't find any real info on the VZ and hope someone on here has had a play with them.

Cheers

I presume its clean under the nipple

there is a chap on other forum who uses the red plastic ones from the $2 shop....the ones we used in cap guns as kids....... maybe you need a little finer powder under your main charge??? one of the BP gurus will tell you whats wrong soon enough.

I think from a bit of googling that its because the triple 7 has a much higher ignition temperature
Fine in a modern in line muzzleloader but not perfect in my traditional one.

Will go back to BP until i can get some hotter caps

Can you change you nipple size, I don’t know what a #11 is but can you go to a top hat type?
You cap off before loading first up?

Originally Posted by Maca49

Can you change you nipple size, I don’t know what a #11 is but can you go to a top hat type?
You cap off before loading first up?

No i load then cap
Carefully put some hammer pressure on to seat the cap
Then carry at thw half cock

777 and Pyrodex need a higher ignition temperature than Black powder. You can dribble a little 4F or 3F black down the barrel first then the 777 on top. Remember to thump the side of your lock when loading before you ram down the Bullet/ball on the powder. This will help with powder getting close to the nipple in the flash channel.
Recently I have been using a few #11 CCI Percussion caps and have had a few that have needed a second hammer strike to set them off. I`m the one who uses the red toy cap gun caps.... hell they seem to just work all the time but wouldn`t be hot enough for 777. Corned home made black powder and they are hard to beat.
Just my opinion but I`d stick to the Black Powder.

Originally Posted by akaroa1

No i load then cap
Carefully put some hammer pressure on to seat the cap
Then carry at thw half cock

You need to cap off first shot to dry the chamber of oil etc, otherwise wet powder when loaded?

Originally Posted by Maca49

You need to cap off first shot to dry the chamber of oil etc, otherwise wet powder when loaded?

Good info I thought he would have done that bit. With percussion guns I now pull the Nipple and pour a jug of boiling water down the barrel and dry swab before I head out shooting, Put the nipple back in of course.

That triple 7 is based on sugar type chemicals and can leave a lot of crude in the breech area, like tar. I have been using cci`s #11`s and black H/S 3f with no misfirer's form when I started this black smoky stuff. I clean out my oiled barrel with meth's before going to the range, take out the nipple and put the breech end in a container with some meth`s, ramrod and patch then pump it up and down to flush all the oil, crud out. Then with barrel back on the rifle put clean patch on rod, push dawn to breech end, fire two caps and check patch, should be crappy on the end, then you are good to go.

I always double cap before the first load
But i don't put a patch in.
Do you leave the rod in with the patch or put the patch in and hook it out after the caps ?

I will have a session with BP before i go away Saturday
I'm picking all will be well again

Capping before loading is a must imo,putting a little powder down the nipple "just to be sure" for the first shot is also not a bad idea. The no 11 is the small cap as macca49 said the top hat military style caps are larger and have more bang.
I hate pyrodex and 777 they may foul less but are harder to ignite and contain chlorate which breaks down to form salt which is so good for steel. You need to be religious with cleaning with that stuff. BP on the other hand produces potassium carbonate as a residue which is alkaline and actually slows or prevents rusting.

Not sure if it matters with percussion lock primers, but for normal large rifle primers (non magnum primers) Federal uses a slightly hotter burning compound than others. The difference is also why Lee tells users not to use Federal Primers in their hand primer tool - Federals are also more sensitive to static, basically can go off unannounced. So maybe if Federal also makes percussion lock primers they also use similar composition as in their cartridge primers. Just thinking, but I don't know.

Akaroa 1 I leave the rod and patch in the barrel, the caps don`t move it and when I pull it out the face is full of crude, the cap sets of what`s left of the meths so really gets all the gungs out. I have never caped off before loading, that's wasting good money, , I have a capping thingey I made, put cap on and press it onto the nipple, a bang every time!, dry balling !! what ME. Just for laughs and giggle's I made up a gizmo that screws in place of the nipple, it takes a large rifle primer, so no matter what you load you will get a bang, even with my homebrew!!.