Pierced ginex primers

Had a surprise when I looked at some brass from a recent shoot. These were all loaded in virgin lapua brass with 25.7gr of 8208 behind a 130gr sierra game changer in a howa mini grendel.
This was a load that seemed to be fine previously, not running too hot according to the chrono and no heavy bolt lift when shooting these. Still knocked over the goats and possums just fine.
Not sure if these ginex primers are thin and blowing too easily, or if my powder scale (FA intellidropper) is inaccurate and throwing a few more spicy loads.
Has anyone else found the ginex small rifle primers are causing issues?

Attachment 241094

If that middle case did not have excessive headspace it was too hot. Powder can be temperature sensitive and be OK in winter....too hot in summer.

You need to check the headspace measurement on a fired case compared to an unfired one to begin the investigation.

The primer on the left and centre have a different appearance from each other. Are they the same primers and the same load? At first glance without any other info, this might indicate some kind of inconsistency of variables perhaps?

This was all new lapua brass, so the only treatment it got was a mandrel to straigten any bends in the mouth from shipping damage, then a very quick deburr/chamfer. I would expect that I shouldn't run into headspace issues with lapua brass? The rifle has gone through factory ammo with no issue, and this is near the end of 100 hand loads with no other issues so far.
These were all made as a batch together with the same lot of primers/powder/projectiles/brass, all to the same COAL with a hornady seater. The load was initially worked up a few months ago when it was colder, but this was not the hotest load and is a few grains off the book highest too.
I think I will need to invest in a good balance beam scale to keep some QC on the amount the powder scale is dropping

What is the action you are using here?

Oops I see you mentioned it . . . Howa Mini.

It might also pay to have your firing pin protrusion, diameter and fit to the firing pin hole checked. I havent heard of Howa's having issues with this atea but any manufactured item can have tolerance issues.

I think if the left and the middle are supposed to be the same loads you need to throw away whatever means you use to estimate charge weights.

Pretty sure someone mentioned thinner ginex primer cups on this forum a week or so ago. Was going to buy some and try out of interest when the shop opens.

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Originally Posted by STC

I think if the left and the middle are supposed to be the same loads you need to throw away whatever means you use to estimate charge weights.

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Yes, from left to right progressively higher pressure. Check/calibrate your scales

just by looking at the cases you'd think there were 3 different loads there...how do the current cases weigh up compared to cases you've previously used in the rifle?

Yes, definitely an increasing pressure problem. You need to check your scales and or powder thrower. Stop using and put aside and mark any more rounds you have left, including fired ones inspect, recycle them later. Start from scratch. Keep us posted on how you get on.

It has had several packets of factory ammo and nearing 100 handloads, I've kept all the brass and the only 2 unusual primers were the 1st and 3rd in the pic which are from the most recent batch, all the rest are similar to the middle primer. Thinking the powder scales need a check now

That middle primer looks flattened meaning excessive pressure. Did not hear good enough about Ginex to buy as an alternative to Federal.

What does the rest of the case look like? Dirty necks?

Greetings,
The flattened primer is almost certainly due to more headspace on that case than the one on the left and nothing to do with pressure. Depending on how you size your cases they may all look the same next time. The primer on case on the left looks quite different and as you say is the odd one.
GPM.

Greetings,
Thinking about it a bit more I am starting to wonder if the left and right cases have been fired in a different rifle. The left hand primer appears to be cratered and on the way to piercing but there is no sign of that on the middle one. It looks pristine. Worth considering.
GPM.

I only have one rifle in this caliber, and these were all fresh lapua brass, no resizing done prior to this firing. Theres a bit of dark crud around the necks, but not anymore than usual amounts I have had from factory loads

Do you have any unfired brass left that you can measure for headspace vs the stuff you have in the picture?


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https://forum.accurateshooter.com/th...imers.4072021/

https://www.longrangehunting.com/thr...ictures.18869/

https://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co....primers-59071/

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Originally Posted by 6.5 CRD

Do you have any unfired brass left that you can measure for headspace vs the stuff you have in the picture?


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I'd suggest if you have a few left pull the bullets from say, , 10 and weigh the powder twice. Preferably another scale, then use yours.

So, while out goat shooting today I fired a few different loads just to compare primers after firing. I know theres a bit of primer flow around firing pin on some cases so don't need any comments. The 24gr 2219 load is getting up there in this rifle, 16" Howa/ Gunworks suppressor. The Varget load is just starting to compress powder with OAL of 57.4mm. Photos should be self explanatory.See following post for details, they didn't load properly when posting.Attachment 241438Attachment 241439Attachment 241440Attachment 241441

Top to bottom. 23gr 2219, Ginex primer. 24gr 2219, Ginex primer. 23gr Varget/73gr ELDM, CCI primer. Belmont Black 55gr. From limited 'off the cuff' trial, can't say that Ginex are any softer than some other offrings already out there.

Revisit of this post. trialed some 73ELDM loads as per @zeropack post on another thread. Howa 16" barrel. AR2206H powder at 24, 24.3 and 24.6 grains powder. All same brand cases except one. 9 shots fired, 5 pierced primers. Might revise my opinion on these primers but will do some more trials with same powder but differant primers for comparison. They hadn't given any grief until now.

Revisit of this post. trialed some 73ELDM loads as per @zeropack post on another thread. Howa 16" barrel. AR2206H powder at 24, 24.3 and 24.6 grains powder. All same brand cases except one. 9 shots fired, 5 pierced primers. Might revise my opinion on these primers but will do some more trials with same powder but differant primers for comparison. They hadn't given any grief until now.
Attachment 24894924gr. Attachment 24895024.3gr. Attachment 248951Attachment 24895124.6gr

Seems a little odd. Those are not hot loads. I know the Ginex primers are taller than some other makes. I have some Ginex here and will give them a go next range day. I wonder if the primers sitting proud of the case could be causing the issue you are having, it doesn't look like from the images.

so the PSD case..thats milserp (so smaller cpacity)which you already know...24.5grns AR2206h behind a 50-55grn pill has been my go to load for years....your projectile is a shit load heavier than that so if its not a hot load persay its definately getting warm. I see slight primer flow around pin in both first and second photo...might be contributing factor..might not too.

My tikka did the same with REM 71/2 primers. Changed to Fed sr and all good.


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If the primer's anvil inside the cup is a little soft or the primer is not fully sensitized or seated home the firing pin can stretch the cup past what it likes and that can cause a pierced primer. It's quite hard to really define what happened in the sequence of events that lead up to a pierced primer event without knowing what they all are. May or may not be related to the load details or reloading process.

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Originally Posted by zeropak

Seems a little odd. Those are not hot loads. I know the Ginex primers are taller than some other makes. I have some Ginex here and will give them a go next range day. I wonder if the primers sitting proud of the case could be causing the issue you are having, it doesn't look like from the images.

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Primers were not protruding. Seated pretty much to normal height compared to CCI and Federal primer loads that were on hand.

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

so the PSD case..thats milserp (so smaller cpacity)which you already know...24.5grns AR2206h behind a 50-55grn pill has been my go to load for years....your projectile is a shit load heavier than that so if its not a hot load persay its definately getting warm. I see slight primer flow around pin in both first and second photo...might be contributing factor..might not too.

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PSD cases basically hold same water volume as FC cases which are also ex-military. Those three cases were a load of 24.6gr Varget under 73gr ELDM giving an av. velocity of 2804 fps, ES of 11, SD of 6 (Pro Chrony) and a .91 moa group. So I may investigate this load further with CCI or Fed primers and differant seating depths, or not. The 24.3gr load didn't give such good velocity figures but was a tighter group so may go that way, I don't get too wound up about ES and SD.