Thread: Pistol powders in rifles question

Hi all. I have a question in regards to using pistol powders in rifle cast reduced loads. Why do some powders require some sort of filler but others don't? Thanks

I've never used fillers in any of my reduced loads except for black powder.
Unique and blue dot are my go to powders for 310 cadet, 3030, 303, 44/40.
It's said the filler keeps the small powder charge up against the primer ensuring ignition, rubbish if your primer can't fill the case with sparks it's stuffed.
In my opinion using dacron etc is likely to put a coat of melted plastic in your bore which I would rather avoid.
If you have access to old reloading books especially lyman ones there's no mention of fillers with any loads.

Suggest you do a lot of research on using fillers. Some still use them. They were used a fair bit a few decades back and notable writers published load info. What came up for me is that there were instances reported of detonation in loads with filler used damaging or destroying firearms and causing injury. The real issue was that despite several attempts, such detonation could not be repeated reliably under lab conditions. So no-one knows why the same load with filler has no issues over hundreds of reloads for one person yet can detonate either at a later point for that person or for someone else. That is too loose for me.

I focused on the use of Red Dot in "The Load". Research it for yourself but basically 13gn of (the old) Red Dot in any 30cal cartridge with cast bullets around 200gn producing around 1400- 1600 fps - your mileage may vary.

I found some old ICI Nobel 78 Shotgun powder, a larger flake powder, gives a reliable result of the same order. I use it without issues, so far, in 30-30, 308, 303B for velocities ranging from 900fps to 1800fps the latter being very stout. 1600fps is a sweet spot for me.

It has not detonated - yet. I also use it with great performance and reliability in 45ACP, 38sp and 357mag pistol and LA loads

There is no published load data for this powder.

I have never used fillers.

Others use AP70N in similar fashion.

I am not recommending you do as I do. If you want to go down this path do a lot of research and cross referencing and don't take any one assertion as gospel. Its your eyes, face and fingers you are risking.

Don't go near ball powders or standard rifle powders (SR4759 excepted) for reduced loads with or without fillers. Just don't....

Some powders are sensitive to the position of the powder (when not a full case of it) in relation to the primer, hence why the filler is required to keep the powder back by the primer. I use IMR4198 for reduced recoil youth-type loads in rifles cases, and that powder is not sensitive to the position in the case with reduced loads. Its not a pistol powder as such, but is fast burning, and is commonly referenced for use with cast bullet reduced rifle loads.

I wish 4759 was still available

Originally Posted by Marty Henry

I wish 4759 was still available

Yeah my bit is well locked up lol

Check out a guru's experience:
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...use-of-fillers

@Jhon
Have a look at this post re Nobel's powder data:
https://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co....rtridge-81222/

Originally Posted by rupert

@Jhon
Have a look at this post re Nobel's powder data:
https://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co....rtridge-81222/

Yes, you will see me on that thread. I have a full manual for ICI Nobel Rifle & Pistol powders. They did not publish data for Nobel 78 Shotgun Powder in Pistol or rifle as far as I know

Plenty of data on the web using blue dot for reduced loads.
I load 8.0 grains under a 55 grain Rusa CMJ projectile for 1800 fps.
Nice load for the kids, a good small game hunting load.
Cheap load to boot.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by Jhon

Suggest you do a lot of research on using fillers. Some still use them. They were used a fair bit a few decades back and notable writers published load info. What came up for me is that there were instances reported of detonation in loads with filler used damaging or destroying firearms and causing injury. The real issue was that despite several attempts, such detonation could not be repeated reliably under lab conditions. So no-one knows why the same load with filler has no issues over hundreds of reloads for one person yet can detonate either at a later point for that person or for someone else. That is too loose for me.

I focused on the use of Red Dot in "The Load". Research it for yourself but basically 13gn of (the old) Red Dot in any 30cal cartridge with cast bullets around 200gn producing around 1400- 1600 fps - your mileage may vary.

I found some old ICI Nobel 78 Shotgun powder, a larger flake powder, gives a reliable result of the same order. I use it without issues, so far, in 30-30, 308, 303B for velocities ranging from 900fps to 1800fps the latter being very stout. 1600fps is a sweet spot for me.

It has not detonated - yet. I also use it with great performance and reliability in 45ACP, 38sp and 357mag pistol and LA loads

There is no published load data for this powder.

I have never used fillers.

Others use AP70N in similar fashion.

I am not recommending you do as I do. If you want to go down this path do a lot of research and cross referencing and don't take any one assertion as gospel. Its your eyes, face and fingers you are risking.

Don't go near ball powders or standard rifle powders (SR4759 excepted) for reduced loads with or without fillers. Just don't....

I do have AP70N. Just trying to work out a good load and what existing load data I can use as a reference, min and max load etc.

Originally Posted by Marty Henry

I've never used fillers in any of my reduced loads except for black powder.
Unique and blue dot are my go to powders for 310 cadet, 3030, 303, 44/40.
It's said the filler keeps the small powder charge up against the primer ensuring ignition, rubbish if your primer can't fill the case with sparks it's stuffed.
In my opinion using dacron etc is likely to put a coat of melted plastic in your bore which I would rather avoid.
If you have access to old reloading books especially lyman ones there's no mention of fillers with any loads.

I bought some Trailboss off a dude in Katikati and he showed me how he used a smidgen of cotton off a cotton bud as his filler. Used it on both 223 and 308 rounds.Due to start some 308 as I have the Tok 151 308 pills.

Originally Posted by TeRei

I bought some Trailboss off a dude in Katikati and he showed me how he used a smidgen of cotton off a cotton bud as his filler. Used it on both 223 and 308 rounds.Due to start some 308 as I have the Tok 151 308 pills.

Has he got more TB?

Trailboss doesn't need filler.

when you half fill the case then turn it on its side all of the powder gravitates flat then the primer cannot properly ignite it like it would if it was full so you get a double detonation potential
or so I was told by the old fella who showed me how to make subs.

he just used the fluff out of a pillow by the looks of things

I decided that looked like it wasnt the best way forward and went with trailboss

his subs were A LOT cleaner than trailboss if that matters to you, but they were no more or less accurate