Thread: Powder equivalents, AR2213sc and H4831sc.

Happy new year and all that.

Does anyone have first hand knowledge that AR2213sc and H4831sc are the same powder. For example has anyone used the same loads in the same caliber and components themselves.

Thanks.

yes. same

Thankyou for your recent enquiry with regard to reloading using ADI Sporting powders.

Some ADI propellants are sold in the US by the Hodgdon Powder Company, including AR2208 which is sold as Varget. It is the same powder.

Attached is a listed of other powders sold in the US under the Hodgdon brand.

Extreme caution should be taken and loads should be worked up accordingly. Refer to our website at ADI Powders Handloaders' Guide or our hand-loaders’ guide for more information, warnings and reloading safety.

We thank you for using ADI Sporting Powders.
Yours Sincerely

ADI Technical Centre

ADI / Hodgdon Propellants
ADI Powder/Hodgdon naming
AS30N.................Clays
Trail Boss.............Trial Boss
AS50N.................International
AP70N.................Universal
AR2205...............H4227
AR2207...............H4198
AR2219...............H322
BM2....................Benchmark
AR2206H.............H4895
AR2208...............Varget
AR2209...............H4350
AR2213SC...........H4831 / H4831SC
AR2217...............H1000
AR2225...............Retumbo
AR2218...............H50BMG

Thanks for that

Thanks for the information. Much appreciated.

I use them both the same....Ive got old grey hogdgon stuff and new greenish ADI stuff and happily inter change it...... pressure looks same in my .270 and poi sure dont change.

Just in case someone like me run out of the adi 2213sc and got some hodgdon h4831sc for my 300wsm.

Same loads with both powders I thought I would get the same results, but the hodgdon h4831sc is about 60fts slower according labradar data.

2213sc five shots average at 2825fts.
h4831sc five shots average at 2765fts.

Nah you must have cut 3 inches off your barrel by mistake.
Actually this is the exact reason that you need to reduce loads and work up when you change powders / lots.

Imagine if you had been loading the slower powder at a maximum and changed to the one that gives higher Velocity.

Did you shoot both loads on the same day and at the same conditions? Could be a reason for difference
Was one loaded and fired in the winter and the other in the summer? Could also be a reason for the difference.
All just guess work really

Originally Posted by johnd

Nah you must have cut 3 inches off your barrel by mistake.
Actually this is the exact reason that you need to reduce loads and work up when you change powders / lots.

Imagine if you had been loading the slower powder at a maximum and changed to the one that gives higher Velocity.

Did you shoot both loads on the same day and at the same conditions? Could be a reason for difference

Was one loaded and fired in the winter and the other in the summer? Could also be a reason for the difference.
All just guess work really

I just came back from the range, both loads were loaded last night and shot this morning.

Greetings All,
Just a word to the wise. AR2213 is faster than AR2213SC in case anyone has some left. You could probably use IMR4831 data to get you started with AR2213 if needed. Also AR2213 is NOT H4831. the latter is AR2213H. I have seen posts on the Forum where people have called AR2213 SC AR2213. We need to be more careful than that. Also some of the AR2213 loads listed by ADI in earlier data are dangerously hot. Please cross check.
Regards Grandpamac.

From the ADI Handloaders Guide 2000:

AR2213SC will replace AR2213 in the Australian reloading market. AR2213 has beenproduced by ADI only for supply to the Australian reloading market and is only manufacturedevery three to four years due to low consumption versus the lot size. As a result, the powderthat reaches the shooter may not be of recent manufacture and stockout situations occasionally occur.
ADI produces AR2213SC for the North American reloading market in much higher quantitiesthan AR2213. AR2213SC is in regular production and ADI will be in a better position toguarantee supply. AR2213SC is repackaged and distributed by Hodgdon Powder Co. in the USunder the brand name of “Hodgdon H4831SC.” ADI also produce AR2213H for Hodgdon,being “Hodgdon H4831” in North America and Europe. AR2213SC and AR2213H have thesame burning rate and bulk density (charge weights), but AR2213SC has improved meteringcharacteristics through a shorter cut length of grain.

I went back through my ADI manuals from 96, 2000 and 2010 to dig into this one.
In the 1996 manual it describes AR2213 as having a burning rate between IMR4831 and H4831. No AR2213SC has been introduced at this stage.
In the 2000 manual AR2213 was discontinued and AR2213SC was available, the data for both powders is in the manual. The notes describing it are as copied above by grandpamac and requoted by Magnetite.
The loads loads for 2213 are about 5% below those for 2213SC for the same case and projectile. At one stage in NZ (late 90's) you could buy both H4831SC and H4831 these powders have the same burning rate.

Originally Posted by Rock

Just in case someone like me run out of the adi 2213sc and got some hodgdon h4831sc for my 300wsm.

Same loads with both powders I thought I would get the same results, but the hodgdon h4831sc is about 60fts slower according labradar data.

2213sc five shots average at 2825fts.
h4831sc five shots average at 2765fts.

Greetings Rock,
AR2213SC and H4831SC are the same powder. The difference you experienced is in the lots of powder. While I have not experienced that much difference with AR2213SC I have between different lots of AR2209 (H4350). To me working up from scratch for each lot is a lot of busy work for no return. These days I test new lots of powder by loading a test cartridge about 2 grains below my previous load and chronographing. I then compare the velocity with that of my previous test string for that charge and if comparable this shows the speeds are much the same. Different lots of projectiles can have the same effect.
Regards Grandpamac.

Originally Posted by grandpamac

Greetings Rock,
AR2213SC and H4831SC are the same powder. The difference you experienced is in the lots of powder. While I have not experienced that much difference with AR2213SC I have between different lots of AR2209 (H4350). To me working up from scratch for each lot is a lot of busy work for no return. These days I test new lots of powder by loading a test cartridge about 2 grains below my previous load and chronographing. I then compare the velocity with that of my previous test string for that charge and if comparable this shows the speeds are much the same. Different lots of projectiles can have the same effect.
Regards Grandpamac.

Hi mate, I have used a few 500g bottles of adi 2213sc powders and never have any problem. Yep, it could be the difference from lots to lots. I have worked up some rounds to test. My solution for this is to buy a 4kg lot powder and stick with it.��