Hey Guys,
Some time ago I inherited a 4L Plastic Bottle of AR2208 and a 1L Tin Can of IMR4064.
These have been stored in a Cool Dry place however, I am unsure of the age of it.
Does Powder go 'off'? What are the signs?
Thanks in advance!
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Hey Guys,
Some time ago I inherited a 4L Plastic Bottle of AR2208 and a 1L Tin Can of IMR4064.
These have been stored in a Cool Dry place however, I am unsure of the age of it.
Does Powder go 'off'? What are the signs?
Thanks in advance!
Worst case, brown fumes. I had this happen. Run for cover.
General sign of going off is a loss of the sweet smell and the onset of a pungent acrid smell.
Sometimes colour can indicate as well with a change to more yellow, however some powders already have a yellowish tinge when new.
If in a tin look inside for signs of corrosion on the walls.
Thanks @zimmer, will have another look this evening.
The AR2208 cant be too old because I have a metal tin of it from about 1995!
IIRC there was something on the ADI website saying powder will still be okay after 10 years with good storage.
As already said, a change from smelling sweet to a bitter or vinegar smell means it's breaking down.
Edit: Here is the link http://www.adi-powders.com.au/faq/
If in doubt, Ill pick it up on my way through and dispose of it 'safely'
Greetings Kiwi-Adam,Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwi-adam
If the AR2208 is in a plastic container, factory marked AR2208 then it is less than 20 years old. If the metal can of IMR 4064 is marked Dupont it is quite old, at least 30 years Old. If marked IMR Powder Co the it is between 30 and 15 years old.
However if either container has been opened and you don't know the history then there is no way to tell what powder it is and one blown up rifle is way more than it is worth. I am still using Dupont IMR 4064 that I bought well over 30 years ago and has been stored well. Recent tests showed velocities in line with results back then. On the other hand I was given a part tin of AR2208 that, on closer inspection was contaminated with ball powder. Zimmer's advice above covers the deterioration.
Regards and take care Grandpamac.
Still use H4831 that Reloaders Supplies sold in bulk in the 1980's, was "old reclaimed" powder when purchased. Still does the right thing and goes "bang"
There was a story I read recently about a guy that bought a huge lot of surplus 4895 around the Korean War in several big tins. He used it over the decades, shot in a lot of competitions and was finally about to finish up the last bit of it 70 years later.
Most powder will last decades if stored well in a dry and cool environment.
@grandpamac you know your powders well, if I recall I am pretty sure the tin can it is Dupont.
Both containers have been opened, however, the Grandfather I inherited them off was very particular about storage and labeling, it has definitely not been mixed, or substituted by another unknown powder.
However, in the interest of my own safety, I will pay extra attention when checking them over tonight. :D
Never ceases to amaze me how many good buggers willing to assist there are on this forum :(Quote:
Originally Posted by 40mm
Greetings Wanneroo,Quote:
Originally Posted by wanneroo
In the post war years .30-06 war surplus cartridges were broken down and the powder and brass salvaged by NZ hunters. The powder was mostly 4895. I was given a tin of it in the early eighties by the son of one of those hunters. Being young, broke and stupid I used it in reduced loads in my .308 using some of the pulled M2 projectiles. All went well. Would I do it again now? Hell no.
Regards Grandpamac.
I am occasionally using some AR2201 I bought from Din about 50 years ago and it still seems the same. I havent checked it in the last 5 months but dont think it has deteriorated.
Around 1967 (just after decimal currency) I bought a Sako Forester in 308.
At that time the govt of the day protected the CAC company, which was still producing ammo locally including 308W, by prohibiing the import of overseas produced 308W. Relative to my wages the CAC was not cheap.
My branch of the NZDA did several annual goat culls on some of the big local stations. This was pretty ammo intensive. At that time there was an abundance of milsurp 30-06 around generally at around 2 cents a round. I bought hundreds of rounds mostly Twin Cities, Denver Arsenal and Frankford Arsenal IIRC.
I stripped the ammo with an inertia puller made out of a short length of 1/2" water pipe with handle welded to it and a crude clamp to reat in the round. It took some pretty fearsome wacks onto concrete to strip the ammo. I cringe a bit when I recall this.
The cases I cut down and formed them into 308W. The projectiles I hollow pointed using a drilling jig, and of course the excellent 4895 I re-used to make great cheap goat ammo.
Snap! Bought a single tin of 2201 off Din around 1971. Went into his work shop under his house with him to get. It was like being a little kid in a huge toy shop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Driverman
Scratching my memory I think the 2201 was pretty temperature sensative?? @grandpamac ?
Dupont IMR4895 smells like spirits, and has zero rust inside.
AR2208 smells a bit stronger, but still not vinigery or acidic.Attachment 153866
yip if it looks ok..smells ok...and goes bang in my rifle sending projectiles into target...its all good for me.
Greetings Kiwi-Adam and Zimmer,Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwi-adam
A little digging produced the following.
First IMR4895 was only marketed by Dupont from about 1962. The markings on your can indicate it was made from the late 1970's to the mid 1980's. I can't be exact on the later date when Dupont disappeared from the label.
Second, I have not seen that type of AR2208 container before. Mulwex disappeared from the AFI labels about 1995 and AR2208 first appeared about 1984, perhaps a little earlier. It was one of the early new powders, after AR2206, produced by ADI.
AR2206 was an improved version of AR2201. It was much less sensitive to temperature driven velocity changes and so gave reliable port pressure in the .223 assault rifles. AR2206 also was much more stable in storage. I broke down some CAC .303 cartridges, almost certainly AR2201, in which the powder had clumped and the inside of the cases corroded somewhat. AR2206 was the first of what Hodgdons later called their extreme powders.
Regards Grandpamac.
Greetings All,
A better way to date Dupont IMR powders.
My old can of IMR4064 is marked:
P79SE27B
I believe this means the powder was packed on 27 September 1979 by shift B. This was also repeated by a post on the Castboolit site. My can of IMR4227, with the older label, is marked P77 so packed 1977.
Every day you learn something new is a good day.
Regards Grandpamac.
From what I heard from various people supposedly in the know CAC only load two Powders AR2201 and surplus 4831, I used a lot of AR2201 for cast bullets it had the same burn rate as IMR3031Quote:
Originally Posted by grandpamac
both powders were good to the .303 and .308.
Greetings Shooternz,Quote:
Originally Posted by shooternz
I had heard much the same. About 1980 I bought a can of NL4831 packed by CAC. The original surplus 4831 ran out about 1972 so perhaps this was the new 4831 made by Nobel's hence the NL prefix. I think that there was some connection between the companies but might be wrong on that.
Regards Grandpamac.
A few more bits for the jigsaw
FishnHunt - New Zealands Famous Hunting and Fishing Forum Since 1995 - AR2201 uses
