Thread: Precision projectile seating

Originally Posted by dannyb

just thought you loved it that much you had to say it 3 times

Nope. I just don't concentrate on what I'm doing sometimes. Also I have been having a problems with my net connection or lack of it lately. Suddenly stops working and I get the 'Recover webpage" box. Probably should upgrade to Win 10.

Originally Posted by TeRei

The force is relative to how hard your neck is and how uniform it is. My 2C. The easiest method? Annealing. Your groups just close up.We lube our necks when sizing and then wet clean them before seating.Running 53gr Barnes in our 8 twist. Recent run of deer with holes in their eyes and ears.

This. If you stop seating according to the seating *pressure*, then you must be making seating *depth* variable.

I've never heard of @mickey Duck's trick of rotating the case with half seated bullet 180 degrees and then completing the bullet seating...makes perfect sense for concentric seating.

Might also stay up all night tonight, pull and double re-seat all my .22LRs so I'm sure they're all done right... (-:

I use a few Wilson dies and arbor press, they are great for doing load development at the range.

I’ve also used Mickey D trick with straight line dies if the run out is getting up, a concentricity gauge is a great tool to ensure sleepless nights! Save the stress and ensuring $$$ you will spent chasing run out reduction and don’t ever buy one

Originally Posted by outdoorlad

I use a few Wilson dies and arbor press, they are great for doing load development at the range.

I’ve also used Mickey D trick with straight line dies if the run out is getting up, a concentricity gauge is a great tool to ensure sleepless nights! Save the stress and ensuring $$$ you will spent chasing run out reduction and don’t ever buy one

You're not wrong about that.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

I was shown a method YEARS ago that does a pretty darn good job of concentricity.......had folk scoff then try it and eat humble pie....
even using lee press and dies it does a VERY good job....start seating projectile,then turn it and case half way around and finish it off,takes but a second to do and as said it works.

Havent started reloading yet but while researching YouTube videos I think I saw @pointofimpacttv doing this. That young UK chap if I recall

I brought one a few years ago R93 and a concentricity guage after watching @7mmsaum use his one.
I noticed no great difference but it took me fuckloads longer to load up me bombs
Fair to say though my reloading is agricultural best..

Originally Posted by R93

If I was serious about presses I doubt you could improve on the German Präzipress.

The gauge imo, will tell you considering your brass prep was in order that you would only have to change out the piece of offending brass or remedy it if possible.

I just checked runout and seating on all my loaded 260 improved ammo. It certainly wasnt as good as I remember it was when i did a control check when loading it, however still well within spec.
I dont have compressed loads either.


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Tech Tip: Try Rotating Cartridge During Bullet Seating Process — This Might Reduce Bullet Run-Out « Daily Bulletin

A first for me but as I'm having a three cartridge reloading day tomorrow I shall give it a try.

Alright obviously a straight round has a better chance of being "gooder" than one with runout.

A few years back I made myself a runout jig, none of my ammo was really bad for runout as I have always done as @Micky Duck does ever since starting reloading.

But I made myself a jig and separated rounds by runout and shot groups of each.....it is quite possible I cannot shoot well enough to see a difference.

I am rambling but this is the bit that will really fuck with your OCD

Where and how is the best place to measure your runout?
There are many ways to do it but some commercial solutions are not really conducive to ensuring everything is actually truly concentric.
EG
It is entirely possible to have a bullet held at the case head and projectile tip that shows no runout then show runout when held at the case head and shoulder.........
Happy sleepless nights.

Originally Posted by TeRei

Tech Tip: Try Rotating Cartridge During Bullet Seating Process — This Might Reduce Bullet Run-Out « Daily Bulletin

I've always done this on a hunch.
Nice to see someone has taken the time to verify tangible gains in doing so.

Originally Posted by Moutere

I've always done this on a hunch.
Nice to see someone has taken the time to verify tangible gains in doing so.

Have always done it too, sometimes in 1/3rds. Doesn't seem to make a difference though in some die, cartridge set-ups but it can't hurt.

Originally Posted by 10-Ring

Have always done it too, sometimes in 1/3rds. Doesn't seem to make a difference though in some die, cartridge set-ups but it can't hurt.

Me too. Some fella somewhere recommended just a 90deg turn so i do 3 of those. I'm trying out one of those vld deburr tools atm. Seemed to prevent any damage to the projectile

Originally Posted by 10-Ring

Have always done it too, sometimes in 1/3rds. Doesn't seem to make a difference though in some die, cartridge set-ups but it can't hurt.

Yep, always done it. And likewise, works sometimes.
A lot of things have to be correct/true before seating projectile ie neck runout, consistant beck wall thickness. Don't then expect your seating die to correct issues from earlier in the process.

All commercial dies are cut to SAAMI, but which end of SAAMI tolerance spec? Then commercial chambers are also cut to SAAMI but which end of the spec? I have 2 different brand 308 full length sizing dies. They produce different dimensions along the body of the cases. Reamers as they wear produce ever so slightly smaller chambers. Outcome can be a cartridge case, particularly if full length sized which is a lot smaller than die internals and therefore poorly supported in the seating die. This includes sleeved Redding Comp dies and Wilson inline.

And then there are issues with seating stems both in fit to the projectile and trueness. Have a gaze done your favourite seating die - is the stem central, does it rotate madly around a centre point when you adjust it. Some issues here can be overcome by puting an o ring under the seating stem's lock ring which leaves it to self locate. Likewise for the expander plug if you use one.

Using a std seating stem on a vld projectile can give poor results. I hone my seating stems to a chosen projectile. Problem then is it may not fit another projectile as well.

My worst runout (3 thou) was with a new Wilson inline. I was mighty pissed off. My least runout (0 to 0.5 thou) is with a Wilson inline die that was bought as a blank and then cut at the same time my rifle was chambered with the chambering reamer. Likewise one of my Redding Comp die sets whose sleeves have been "chambered" with the rifle's finishing reamer.

And going back to the OP's original posting, I use a arbor press with force measurement as pictured. You don't need one of these for run of mill ammo loading as I can easily detect different seating pressures with my ancient single stage press.

Now does all this super duper low runout matter. Not for medium range hunting. I have also shot equally high scores in fullbore with ammo that I had relegated to one side due to unacceptable runout versus my best ammo.

Did a small sample size experiment today regarding seating and loads.

I formed 5 lapua water weight sorted, 260 cases with the hydraulic die into 260 improved.
Checked case runout after sizing and there was hardly a flicker on the DTI.
I loaded some berger 130 vlds that had between 2 and 4 thou + or - variance in bearing surface length out of my sorted packets.
Anything 2 thou or more I use for checking zero etc and usually only have around a dozen per 100 count. Same with anything loaded that has a bit of runout.
Bullet runout on all 5 once loaded was under 1.5 thou

Marked each round accordingly.
The only difference in the loads would hopefully be bearing surface length and a tiny bit of runout.
They all seated well and were all pretty much spot on for length using comparator.
Put them in my pocket and headed up the range originally to test some loads for other stuff.
I loaded the rounds from my pocket into the mag and fired them over the radar at a 200 yrd target. I put the cases in order as I fired them out of sight so I couldnt see which was which.
Unfortunately the first round didnt register.

0. Did not register - 2 thou bearing surface
1. 3123 + 2 thou xtra bearing surface
2. 3123 + 2 thou xtra bearing surface
3. 3101 - 4 thou bearing surface
4. 3132 + 3 thou xtra bearing surface

Might be a fluke as it is only a small sample size but interesting how it worked out as expected on this occasion.


They all grouped bloody well.
I now doubt I will be adding a hydraulic seating press or any flash seating dies to my collection.



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Dave, any ideas why the LabRadar didn't trigger on the 1st shot?
I hate it when they do that.

Not operator error :- ) ?