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Thread: Primers, how flat is too flat

  1. #1
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    Primers, how flat is too flat

    Hi all, looking for some advice and sources of information.
    how flat is too flat with primers, as an indication of pressure.

    I decided to ask more about this after reading another thread on here recently and noticing a couple of flatter than usual primers with what should be a mild load after my last outing.

    the 243 is a barnard SM action and i have never had a stiff bolt lift,
    load data is
    Lapua brass on it's 4th or 5th reload,
    CCI 200 large rifle primer.
    ELD-M 108gr over 46 gr of RL-26, COL 2.83". Alliant quote a load max for 105gr amax of 46.7gr
    75gr HP Hornady /Speer over 44 gr W760, COL 2.64". Hodgdon give a load range of 42-46gr.

    The primers used under the W760/H414 were noticeably flatter. See primers 2nd and 3rd from left
    Name:  Primer 243 a.jpg
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    Name:  Primer 243 b.jpg
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    Next lot is 358 win shot out of a 1975 Savage 99
    Win Brass, CCI 200 primers.
    Sierra GK 225gr over 48 gr Varget/2208. Hodgdon give a load range of 45-49gr.
    Hdy 158gr XTP over 12 gr Trailboss. Max case volume 14-16 gr based on bullet seating depth

    Cases on left had the full power loads, those on the right the trail boss loads.
    Name:  Primer 358 a.jpg
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    Name:  Primer 358 b.jpg
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    Thanks all, keen to hear your feed back and comments
    Z

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZQLewis View Post
    Hi all, looking for some advice and sources of information.
    how flat is too flat with primers, as an indication of pressure.

    I decided to ask more about this after reading another thread on here recently and noticing a couple of flatter than usual primers with what should be a mild load after my last outing.

    the 243 is a barnard SM action and i have never had a stiff bolt lift,
    load data is
    Lapua brass on it's 4th or 5th reload,
    CCI 200 large rifle primer.
    ELD-M 108gr over 46 gr of RL-26, COL 2.83". Alliant quote a load max for 105gr amax of 46.7gr
    75gr HP Hornady /Speer over 44 gr W760, COL 2.64". Hodgdon give a load range of 42-46gr.

    The primers used under the W760/H414 were noticeably flatter. See primers 2nd and 3rd from left
    Attachment 116537
    Attachment 116538


    Next lot is 358 win shot out of a 1975 Savage 99
    Win Brass, CCI 200 primers.
    Sierra GK 225gr over 48 gr Varget/2208. Hodgdon give a load range of 45-49gr.
    Hdy 158gr XTP over 12 gr Trailboss. Max case volume 14-16 gr based on bullet seating depth

    Cases on left had the full power loads, those on the right the trail boss loads.
    Attachment 116539
    Attachment 116540

    Thanks all, keen to hear your feed back and comments
    Z
    Green holder bottom right would get my attention. I've always had a chrony to refer to when reloading. I suggest you acquire one and build your loads up from mid recommended load in .5 gr increments.
    rewa likes this.

  3. #3
    R93
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    Looking at the pics on my phone. Apart from one on the right in the green box that is sort of close, you don't have any what I would call flat primers that I can see.
    No ejector marks or polishing what so ever.
    I personally wouldn't worry about those loads till the summer.
    Check them on a hot day. You might see a flat primer then

    Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
    PERRISCICABA and Sideshow like this.
    Do what ya want! Ya will anyway.

  4. #4
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    Thanks outlander, it did get my attention.
    I normally start with 0.5 and then .3 gr steps and go 0.5-1 gr over where I settle back on.
    That 75 gr load I was being lazy and in a hurry to get something to take way just in case the opportunity to shoot some wallabies came up..
    Previous load workups with 58gr vmax, 87gr vld, 105gr vld and the 108gr eldm suggested I was all ok up to or a little over book max so this time I just went straight to middle of the load range.
    P's I do have a cheap cronie but had loaned it out.
    Z
    outlander likes this.

  5. #5
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    The pressures are fine but you have a problem with the nose of your firing pin. The nose should be a true hemisphere and not have a step in it which can sometimes cause ruptured primers.

  6. #6
    Sending it Gibo's Avatar
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    I can see an ejector mark on that bottom right
    Name:  B4A608E4-94AE-4C5F-8CDE-1BC0100547E2.jpeg
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  7. #7
    Member Marty Henry's Avatar
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    Yes nice and flat right to the edge, yet his mate on the left is rounded. How come the difference
    rewa likes this.

  8. #8
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    Pressure looks ok to me. Primers are still quite round and there is not much in the way of brass flow/ ejector swipe marks.
    I agree with Gundoc, the primer strikes look odd to me. Im not familiar with Barnard actions though, so its possible they just have funky firing pins.

  9. #9
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    I think it's just an optical shadow issue making the firing pin hole look odd. I'm sure its a nice rounded tip.

    Good spotting the ejector swipe as I did notice 2 cases with a bright shiny new mark on them when I picked them up. A few weeks later they have faded somewhat.

    Marty the flat primer with the ejector mark was from one of the 75gr hp loads. The case to the left and the 3 on the top right row are the 108gr eldm.
    Z
    P's will go and reweigh the HP bullets. They are 1970's left overs from my Dad. I assumed they were 75gr speer HP in with some hornady 75gr HP.
    https://www.speer-ammo.com/products/...t-bullets/1205
    Last edited by ZQLewis; 31-07-2019 at 12:53 AM.

  10. #10
    Large Member mimms's Avatar
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    Some primers harder than others. I don't recommend them as a reliable indicator of pressure.
    I am an advocate of ladder testing over a chronograph.

  11. #11
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    I don't worry too much about flat primers. Too many variables. I look for ejector stamping, extraction stiffness and watch velocities. If my velocities are extraordinary compared to the manufacturers manuals I start thinking that something strange is going (although +100 fps over doesn't worry me if everything else is in order)

    I have never measured case expansion because maths baffles me.
    mikee, Gibo, PERRISCICABA and 3 others like this.

  12. #12
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    Thanks Guy's
    Much appreciated the input.
    Will give my Crono a work out next time out.
    Z

  13. #13
    Almost literate. veitnamcam's Avatar
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    Excessive headspace from full length sizing can also cause flat primers with mild loads.
    The primer backs out of the case to the bolt face then is rammed back in as the case streatchs back to the bolt.

    Sent from my S60 using Tapatalk
    rewa likes this.
    "Hunting and fishing" fucking over licenced firearms owners since ages ago.

    308Win One chambering to rule them all.

  14. #14
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    Have a read of this article by John Barsness, a well respected American gun writer.

    https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...mer-flattening
    veitnamcam and rewa like this.

  15. #15
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    Hey @10-Ring right thread
    Good article that
    Shame he doesn’t go into what those two mistakes of his were.
    10-Ring likes this.
    It's all fun and games till Darthvader comes along
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