Projectile annealing

Thought i'd start a new thread on the topic of Projectile annealing. I'm looking to reload with 150gr SSTs in .270win, covered in another thread, Thanks Kurlyman. Annealing was brought up in the thread a number of times so it was suggested to start a new one.

Nathan Foster recommends to anneal the projectile, he does with a couple of other different calibres' too.

I'm keen to hear peoples experience with this and if any budding metallurgists out there want to offer some technical considerations for and against.

Keep it clean

Straight up. Its a load of shit.

yes, a great topic. I have annealed the 150 SST as per the Fosters instructions. No idea if it makes a difference as have not shot enough deer with it. In fact now using a different projectile, but would likely go back to the 150 SST (if I stick with .270 in the long term).

Total waste of time, with out some very high tech equipment to test the hardness of the copper jacket how do you know you got it right,
it takes a temperature of 650 to 750 degrees Fahrenheit to anneal copper, lead melts at 650F,
Why would you want to make SST's softer they are designed as long range hunt projectiles, if hunting at close range they are varmint bullets

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Originally Posted by shooternz

Total waste of time, with out some very high tech equipment to test the hardness of the copper jacket how do you know you got it right,
it takes a temperature of 650 to 750 degrees Fahrenheit to anneal copper, lead melts at 650F,
Why would you want to make SST's softer they are designed as long range hunt projectiles, if hunting at close range they are varmint bullets

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Total waste of time like a lot of his shit except the stuff he has perhaps copied from other sources.

Just use the right projectile in stead of fuking around trying to make something into something it was never designed to be

I think I read somewhere that Hornady recommend annealing their A-max projectiles

Now that will melt your plastic tip!!! Careful or Hornady will change the sst as well :D

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Originally Posted by zimmer

Total waste of time like a lot of his shit except the stuff he has perhaps copied from other sources.

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Big call!

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Originally Posted by bully

Big call!

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Yeah, probably a bit unfair as most stuff published/written nowadays is not original, including most of our comments on forums.

I see there is also a need to "anneal" VLD Bergers..... :wtfsmilie:

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Originally Posted by Tahr

Straight up. Its a load of shit.

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Fucken EH!

Annealing with a candle...fill up the glass BBQ again..jeezus!

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Originally Posted by i41do2

Thought i'd start a new thread on the topic of Projectile annealing. I'm looking to reload with 150gr SSTs in .270win, covered in another thread, Thanks Kurlyman. Annealing was brought up in the thread a number of times so it was suggested to start a new one.

Nathan Foster recommends to anneal the projectile, he does with a couple of other different calibres' too.

I'm keen to hear peoples experience with this and if any budding metallurgists out there want to offer some technical considerations for and against.

Keep it clean

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If this is true and it is advocated by that dude then he deserves the FITH title of the 21st Century. He wrote some absolute bs about a calibre he knew nothing about i.e. 223WSSM but this takes the cake.

Horseshit!

So much strong feeling from everyone!

Bear in mind though that shooters have been modifying bullets for specific purposes that differ from the original for as long as a need existed. These customisations are often ones that might be uneconomic to apply by the manufacturers.

Now I can't comment on the Hornady SST as I haven't used these recently, and annealing bullets with plastic tips sounds.... well, somewhat problematic. What I can say is that Berger bullets shoot with consistent accuracy in my long range rifle, and if I can apply an otherwise uneconomic customising process to these that enhances their ability to fragment at lower impact velocities and/or with less resistance - that will extend their usable range for killing shots on game - then that sounds fine to me.

If Nathan Foster - a person who shoots far more heads of game than myself - advises that annealing of tips on Berger bullets will achieve this, then by all means let the naysayers bring some contrary information to the table.

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Originally Posted by shooternz

Total waste of time, with out some very high tech equipment to test the hardness of the copper jacket how do you know you got it right,
it takes a temperature of 650 to 750 degrees Fahrenheit to anneal copper, lead melts at 650F,
Why would you want to make SST's softer they are designed as long range hunt projectiles, if hunting at close range they are varmint bullets

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Like this @Puffin

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Originally Posted by 300_BLK

Like this @Puffin

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Using the same reasoning, no-one would anneal case necks without similar equipment ? The benefits can still be enjoyed without the precise quantifying you are proposing. Visually the tips of Berger bullets have not been annealed as a final treatment so annealing by the end user will soften the copper to some degree, the amount and resulting benefit that can be determined by observing any improved end performance on game. The end result is all that is important. Anneal just the tips with the bullets held upright to retain any lead that melts; problem solved.

Have shot a few Tahr with 150gn SST out of a .270, and they were NOT annealed bullets, the Tahr shot all died, am I doing something wrong? be a bugger if they come back to life afterward just cause you didn't anneal your bullets, imagine all those zombie Tahr wandering around the hills.......

Is this a piss take?

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Originally Posted by 257weatherby

Have shot a few Tahr with 150gn SST out of a .270, and they were NOT annealed bullets, the Tahr shot all died, am I doing something wrong? be a bugger if they come back to life afterward just cause you didn't anneal your bullets, imagine all those zombie Tahr wandering around the hills.......

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How far did you shoot your thar?

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Originally Posted by 300CALMAN

Is this a piss take?

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Projectile annealing "info" aside -there is a far better on game performance gain with J4 jacketed projectiles in keeping the meplat diameter above 24 thou for reliable expansion, any smaller and "pencilling through" can occur with enough regularity to cause concern.

Use a whidden trimmer and pointer to improve BC and you will have very unreliable expansion on game with J4 jacketed projectiles.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...af72c72270.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...0cfeec253c.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...2f76a64337.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...8f73c3298d.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...f1f5a9dfcf.jpg

Most if not all hunting projectiles have a decent meplat dia and when kept above 24 thou will give reliable terminal performance on game more so than annealing the projectiles nose forward of the ogive.

Earlier Berger projectiles often had meplat diameters smaller than 10 thou, their 180g 7mm projectiles occasionally surprised with their lack of terminal performance on game and that encouraged experimentation.

Plenty of SST/amax projectiles and bic biro pens lost their roller tips in the quest to have a large meplat hidden by a high BC tip, which worked but the early Berger projectiles are tedious to modify.

Kevin Cram from Montour County Rifles designed and marketed a set of tools to modify meplats on the earlier Berger type projectiles
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...46797a4dff.jpg

This uniformed and trimmed not only the outside of the projectile tip but inside the meplat hole as well, restoring the on game performance to be as reliable as possible. So we can see the modification has been around and tested plenty.

There is a risk with annealing projectiles, -the negative effect of bonding the lead core with the jacket in an unreliable way, a spin stabilised projectile subjected to many rpm detests in flight yaw and wobble, major decayers of practical BC

Just how far did you shoot your tahr
was it near or was it far
was it right up close
or way way over thar.
Did it fall down dead
from a shot to the head
or stagger a bit from to hard of lead
Did you should you apply some heat
to allow the bullet to destroy more meat
or did you should you just go a hunt
and leave warming bullets to some other ..... see you next tuesday

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Originally Posted by Puffin

Using the same reasoning, no-one would anneal case necks without similar equipment ? The benefits can still be enjoyed without the precise quantifying you are proposing. Visually the tips of Berger bullets have not been annealed as a final treatment so annealing by the end user will soften the copper to some degree, the amount and resulting benefit that can be determined by observing any improved end performance on game. The end result is all that is important. Anneal just the tips with the bullets held upright to retain any lead that melts; problem solved.

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I am reminded of @R93 signature

Do what you want ya will anyway!

Yep I have chomped the tips off a few FMJs and cross cut a couple of .22s :P

I can prefer to leave bullet modification to the manufacturers these days.

Good discussions
Keep it running, it's all new to me,
Nice poem Sneeze
I don't get the dislike of Nathan Foster. Seem like some of you guys know him personally.
I have his reloading book and it's pretty good. Sure the annealing things a bit different but he seems like he knows what he's up to and certainly has experience.

Thanks 7mmSAUM for your post. I wasn't aware of any of that. I didn't realise you could play around so much with a projectile.
I was hoping someone might be able to explain the physics behind annealing and what exactly it's purpose is to improve it over the base projectile . I'm a chemical engineer so understand a lot of the chemistry and metal grain structure with annealing, but can't see how it relates to hunting performance. Or much about bullet construction at all really. Maybe I should go and read Nathan Fosters articles.
Anyway good work.
Cheers
Dan

1. Stop over thinking it. It's a bullet. If it doesn't work for you, try another one.
2. Go hunting. Talking hunting and doing hunting are different things.