Tahr those fotos are brutal.
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Tahr those fotos are brutal.
YesQuote:
Originally Posted by TeRei
yep that looks like what my 87 gr bergers did in goats, fallow and meat reds. very messy, Ant nothing away from that kind of trauma
Z.
Fallow shot by son at 250 mtr
Attachment 187837
Goat
Attachment 187838
Loaded 100 95gr Targex and 100 87gr Berger. All the comments about suspect Berger performance [not expanding/opening up] made me nervous. My son has taken the Targex. The fotos posted of the Bergers in various calibres are unmodified? The Bergers with needle bits in their cavities [4] will be used as test rounds.
I don't touch the Brergers.Quote:
Originally Posted by TeRei
I was wondering if there are 6.5 projectiles available for sale? I’d like 140 grain, 150 or 160 weight range for use up close and personal ie <100mQuote:
Originally Posted by TARGEX
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Id like 150-160gr 6.5 for way out there performance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny
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And up close even!!Quote:
Originally Posted by veitnamcam
153 atips are available if your after heavies. Work well on game
Same here, the 87gr VLD Hunting were loaded straight out of the box.
Z
Saw this comment when there was a discussion about Bergers
Lest we forget, "Shot placement is King, adequate penetration is Queen and the rest is just dancing on the head of a pin".
Another comment. This illustrates my comparison between Targex and Berger. I habe had no experience with Berger apart from numb fingers opening up that cavity. The rifle will go into the truck but firewood will be taking front seat .
I also inspect each and every hunting round for be sure the tip is opened. If your seating die bottoms out on the tip, and closes the hole. its not the bullets fault. This also can happen if a bullet has spent too many firings in the bottom of a mag box in a magnum rifle. Then, there will be a few in each box that close up during manufacturing. Use these for practice or drill them out to the exact size that the others are.
My assessment visually to date. The 87gr VLD Berger had a closed tip and were rough at the tip.They required extensive remedial work on the channel. The 95gr VLD Berger had a clear channel but which responded to a light reaming finish and had a more consistently trim tip. The 95gr Targex had a clear channel and nicely rebated tip. The Targex visually looked the clear winner finish wise. 2C. Proof will be in the pudding.
So SST's do kill!
7-08, 140 grn, 2.8K, 230 yds, solid buck.
Front on and out between the shoulders. Ouch.
Attachment 188482
Attachment 188483
Yes but they ruin a lot of meat and contaminate it with lead so it is no good even for dog tucker. 10ltrs of waste per SST compared to 2ltrs trim with an AB
Yes they are meat munchers thats for sure. I lost the front third of one back steak and some of the other. But they are mainly what Ive got in 7mm under the shortage and they are very accurate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moa Hunter
Where were you shooting, through the shoulder? And as for the contaminated meat do you give it a wide berth or just what looks damaged?Quote:
Originally Posted by Moa Hunter
Not me, I wont use them myself. I have mates who were using them and I always end up skinning and butchering the animals, so I get to measure and compareQuote:
Originally Posted by Magnetite
again,its all about shot placement Vs meat recovery Vs anchoring animal Vs what you have got on hand to use.
you can shoot deer with a .12ga shotgun and 36gr load of #4 birdshot if you really have to...and can get within 5 yards and can point it either just below chin or into lungs through ribs.......it WILL be very messy and you WILL have lead contamination.... that is one extreme and neither shot placement would loose much meat and neither will touch steak meat.
you could shoot deer wit h.50BMG with 750grn FMJ at 1500 yards,too and get no lead contamination and possibly stuff all bruising if your shot goes through ribs and out through ribs
deer will die,just maybe not in huge hurry,most big slow projectiles will do same...unless you hit big bones they wont break up.
I hate wastage as much as next fella but are starting to see in these times of higher numbers that maybe Im betterto take back wheels n backsteaks off anything further away and only take 100% of meat from close ones...I do recall a few times over the years when a long way from wagon deer being shot twice through shoulders (which may or may not have been necessary)so I didnt feel guilty leaving good meat behind.
Like you say, the proof is in the pudding so will look forward to seeing how they go for you.
Appreciate the comments though, I try to make the best projectiles I can.
Good luck!
Yours are excellent. Have never let me down.Quote:
Originally Posted by TARGEX
Always remind people that meat damage is preferential to a runner you never recover, which is 100% meat loss!Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
and you cant make an omlet without breaking eggs...a bullets JOB is to destroy stuff....how much stuff and what stuff is controlable by you.
No idea how refreshing it is to hear that a bullets job is to destroy & put an animal down as quickly as possible & if that's the case meat loss WILL happen.
Gets ridiculous as it's either a complaint about animals running off after being shot (Not good at all I agree!)
OR its complaining because of meat damage, I have noticed that if animals aren't killed quickly with a bit of meat loss it generally means the animal is still running & no meat at all is forthcoming. Then the poor thing dies slowly to know ones benefit.
It's impossible to make the perfect bullet to keep everyone happy:thumbsup:
If you want absolute minimum meat loss though, its a case of go to big calibers, 44cal up & run heavy cast bullets in them at moderate velocities using soft bullet metal. They will give very good penetration & very little meat loss BUT forget about longer range flat trajectory.
Cant say I get excited about low meat loss if it means having to track wounded animals all through the bush before they go down.
Personally I like to hit them in the engine room & when picked up they make a sloshing noise like they are full of water as the bullet ruptures internally & turns heart & lungs into slush.
No tracking needed:thumbsup:
I know there are always different opinions & that's fine but that is mine for what its worth.
Other BIG one is put the bullet where it should be put in the animal to start with.
Meat loss is never high on my list if both shoulders are buggered and you want more meat then just shoot another one.
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Meat damage is not a concern for me. I still have plenty
of meat to carry out. And if I needed more, I would endeavor to shoot another one within a short space of time.
My main priority is to get it down as quickly and humanely as possible. If that means losing a little more meat through projectile choice, so be it.
There's plenty of deer around.
I believe that it is immoral to take an animals life and not utilize every part. I think it shows a general attitude of disrespect for the game animal. In fact I would rather see a clean shot deer under a helicopter and fully utilized than shot through the shoulders and half of it wasted on the hill by a junior woodchuck.
In the meat hunting days there were rows of deer in chillers all around the country 99% were clean shot in the head or neck with scopes that were nowhere as good as todays scopes, so why cant people clean shoot today Is it a lack of ability, muscle tone, practice, confidence or lazy. Or is it all of those plus people taking long shots instead of stalking closer ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TARGEX
Like this
Attachment 188590
Attachment 188591
So a clean shot deer under a copter for pet food is ok for you woodchuckQuote:
Originally Posted by Moa Hunter
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I understand where you coming from moa hunter....... but this game is different for every player....I remember when folks frowned upon others who didnt catch n release every trout....well thats double edged sword,catch it,kill it and eat it is arguably better than stress it out with drawn out fight on light gear and possibly miss handle it on bank and release it hoping it will survive (yes I know lots of folks do it right)
if a fella cleanly kills a deer,they have shown it respect,if they take out decent amount of meat to eat,they have utilised the animal.... maybe it could have been utilised more..but its still a darn sight better than dying with its guts burning out with poison then rotting in a creek feeding nothing but maggots.
Should we only head shoot everything from now on?Quote:
Originally Posted by Moa Hunter
Money talks. Were those the £1 per l/b days?Quote:
Originally Posted by Moa Hunter
Personally prefer to see the newbie/recreational hunter getting 'one for the pot' compared to a pro shooting hundreds if not thousands of deer a year.
I shoot deer for a living and have killed much more than I could possibly eat. Don't you wonder about what happens to the deer after putting it to the chiller and never seeing it again? Could land up as dog food!
Much more respect for my friend who shoots in his leisure time and shares the proceeds with friends and family. Although he has been known to stray from the path and sell one to the chiller on occasion! @takbok :P
I've been round for a while and killed the odd animal or two myself, used lots of 95 VLD and 95 Targex on deer big and deer little, and on solidly built Tahr bulls and on nannies, I wonder about the stories put about about poor performance on the bullets part, I have never had a runner, never had a loss to that pill and kills have always been decisive. I don't generally shoulder shoot, I put it in the vital zone and let the bullet trash the internals. Never drilled out any of them either.Quote:
Originally Posted by TeRei
"Expansion" I have a theory about that in relation to the Berger and Targex. I believe the idea that the hollow point opens under hydraulic pressure on impact is flawed. What I believe is going on is: the small hp lets the pill stay together long enough to penetrate, then it collapses because it has a big cavity and the pill tumbles and sheds most of it's weight. Like a little grenade in the lungs. Inside the animal where it counts. So: I reckon drilling out any of the VLD's or Targex is the wrong direction.
My 2c
And I too understand where you are coming from MD. Where I am coming from is partly a question of personal morality and ethics. The attitude of 'Shoot it through the shoulders and who cares if half the meat is wasted, there's another one round the corner' is to me an abhorrent attitude which shows a general disregard and disrespect for other sentient lifeforms. I believe that a person will gain much greater and deeper personal satisfaction with hunting and their own place and value to society if they make two trips and give away all the meat from the second trip rather than shooting to waste half.Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
If we consider that the non hunting members of society have as much right and ownership to/of game animals as hunters do, we are privileged
to be allowed to take their share and give nothing back. Doing our best to shoot cleanly and recover as much meat as possible and giving away as much of that as we can is a way of giving back. Full recovery is a legal requirement in most countries
I find it immoral to shoot a deer with only the amount of meat recovery in mind, rather than the quick and humane expiry of it first and foremost even if that means losing some meat from a shoulder shot . . . .
That's what I believe.
Quoted as per @Moa Hunter .....
If we consider that the non hunting members of society have as much right and ownership to/of game animals as hunters do, we are privileged
to be allowed to take their share and give nothing back. Doing our best to shoot cleanly and recover as much meat as possible and giving away as much of that as we can is a way of giving back.
FFS what a load of shite.....non hunter right of ownership....taking their share....giving back to who? Non hunters??.....blah blah blah
Right then all you fisherman out there, as a non fisherman I demand that you all drop off to my house half of your catch from over the weekend and do so every weekend hereafter since it's my right of ownership ����
I agree with you on the 'quick and humane death', but is a shoulder shot actually a quick death or quicker death ? Just because it will generally drop the animal on the spot because of a 'spinal concussion' does that mean a more immediate death than any other lethal shot where the animal dies of blood loss ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Allizdog
Many hunters sour of killing and stop hunting, why is that ? Perhaps it is because they no longer get satisfaction from killing alone and dont have a purpose in killing ? Giving away meat does offer a purpose and deeper satisfaction for a hunter. If you ( or any of the six persons who identify as creeper ) are in need, I will bring you some meat, but no trout this weekend.Quote:
Originally Posted by #the creeper
A Sand Country Almanac .....
Nah all good here for meat MH thanks anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moa Hunter
