Projectiles for a .223 with a 12 inch twist.

Greetings All,
Following some Olympic grade procrastination on my part, fortunately tempered with the help and components from friends, my portable bench rest is now ready. One of the uses intended for this was to have a crack at FTR shooting. A look in the rifle cupboard revealed a likely candidate is a Remington VSSF in .223 with a 26" heavy barrel and a 3-12 scope. The fly in the ointment is that it has a 12" twist. I have a few Hornady 60 grain VMAX projectiles to test for stability at 200 metres but thought I would ask the brains trust to see what people have found to work with this twist at range.
All contributions would be gratefully received.
Regards Grandpamac.

short 60s may work..sierra make a semi point 63grn??? any 50-55grn will work. federal 62grn factory work.

60gr Hornady SP used to work okay in my 223 (25+ years ago so pre Vmax)

What are you intending to shoot with it ?
Rabbits , Deer ...other ?

I had good success with 52g bthp in nosler and sierra with some 2206h underneath. Without too much fuss either I might add

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Originally Posted by viper

What are you intending to shoot with it ?
Rabbits , Deer ...other ?

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Greetings @viper,
I was hoping to shoot targets. FTR is a target shooting discipline where supports are allowed. It was set up for older shooters, for which I qualify, and is shot over 300, 600 and 1,000 yards locally and hopefully a portable bench will be OK. I suspect it may.
Regards Grandpamac.

My original Howa .223 loved 55 gr Belmont and Aussie Outback ammo as it was 1:12 twist. I see Huntshop in Whakatane is selling bulk s.p. 55 gr projectiles suitable for 1:12 reloading.

The Hornady 55gr soft points work well in my 223. CZ 527 (currently for sale) I can send up a score and 1 if you want to trial some before buying a bag of 500?

I suspect yo uwill be fine to 300 but 600 is a stretch and 1000 is beyond capabilities of .224
happy to be corrected.

You might find this of some use.

https://bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

I suspect yo uwill be fine to 300 but 600 is a stretch and 1000 is beyond capabilities of .224
happy to be corrected.

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F class is 223 and 308. 223 does ok at 1000. Pretty much the same drop as 308 depending on projectile, just more affected by the wind. I've been well outclassed by an 80-something year old with a 223 (though with my talent it probably doesn't say much)

I used 53 gr V Max , hitting rabbits at 450 mtrs . Better BC than the 55 gr V Max. They will go further but I don't know at what point they will hit their limit .
1/12 twist would be a limiting factor as you would be aware, saying that you might be surprised just how far you can reach out.

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Originally Posted by Oldbloke

You might find this of some use.

https://bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/

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Greetings @Oldbloke.
I ran the 60 grain VMax through a different calculator which gave me a stability factor of 1.3 which is marginally stable. @Cigar above found the 60 grain SP to be stable so this is a good indication. I have loaded some of the few VMax I have and will test at 200 metres over the next few days.
Regards Grandpamac.

The bit of extra speed and rpm you get with the 26" barrel might just be enough to keep the 60gr VMAX stable...only testing will tell.

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Originally Posted by Joe_90

The Hornady 55gr soft points work well in my 223. CZ 527 (currently for sale) I can send up a score and 1 if you want to trial some before buying a bag of 500?

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Greetings @Joe_90,
Have been using the 55 grain soft points for years and they shoot well at closer ranges but was wanting a higher BC for 300 yards.
GPM.

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Originally Posted by grandpamac

Greetings @Oldbloke.
I ran the 60 grain VMax through a different calculator which gave me a stability factor of 1.3 which is marginally stable. @Cigar above found the 60 grain SP to be stable so this is a good indication. I have loaded some of the few VMax I have and will test at 200 metres over the next few days.
Regards Grandpamac.

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The 60gr SP was a flat base bullet, which is more likely to be stable than a boattail of the same weight.

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Originally Posted by Cigar

The 60gr SP was a flat base bullet, which is more likely to be stable than a boattail of the same weight.

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The 60 grain VMax is flat base as well but with a polycarbonate tip. The two look similar other than the tip.
GPM.

Out of the small handful of projectiles I have tried in my Zastava, (18” barrel with 1-12? twist from memory, MDuck might be able to confirm or deny) 60gn Vmax have been most accurate. I load them with BM2 from ADI and the accuracy peak is more of a high plateau. I haven’t tried them past 200 though.

yip pretty sure they are 1;12 hmmmm maybe I should load up the 60 grn hornady sitting waiting on shelf....been debating if they will stabilize in 1;14 and if any real gain over the 50grn I have been having such a good run with LOL

According to Applied ballistics the 53gr vmax (3300fps) will go transonic at about 600m. The 64gr Berger varmint (3100fps) is slightly better at 650m approx, this means that accuracy at the 1000m/yd line will probably be rather poor.
Most of the typical 50-60gr projectiles won't even make 600 so careful selection will be important to get any performance here.

If as I suspect you just want to get out and have some fun shooting then I'd first look for some of the above projectiles and then try and get a good load made for them. In reality though you'll probably just have to take whatever match type projectiles you can get and go and enjoy shooting. However if you want to be competitive you're going to need a new barrel (or rifle) with a twist suitable for the 75gr plus high bc projectiles.

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Originally Posted by grandpamac

Greetings All,
Following some Olympic grade procrastination on my part, fortunately tempered with the help and components from friends, my portable bench rest is now ready. One of the uses intended for this was to have a crack at FTR shooting. A look in the rifle cupboard revealed a likely candidate is a Remington VSSF in .223 with a 26" heavy barrel and a 3-12 scope. The fly in the ointment is that it has a 12" twist. I have a few Hornady 60 grain VMAX projectiles to test for stability at 200 metres but thought I would ask the brains trust to see what people have found to work with this twist at range.
All contributions would be gratefully received.
Regards Grandpamac.

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I am surprised at he number of guys suggesting 60gr in a 1:12. I had a Howa 1:12 heavy barrel varmint rifle and it would shoot some 55gr OK (American eagle 50gr, Hornady steel case 55sp) but apart from that 50gr was about as heavy as it would stabilise. It really liked the 35gr vmax and 40gr blitz kings. In saying that, I did have room to up the velocity a bit more (I was at around 2900fps) but as those speeds were more than accurate enough, I did not.

Greetings @Dan.22-250,
You suspect right. For some time now I have participated rather than competed in shoots as my scores demonstrate. I was aware of the problems from projectiles going transonic and was only going to use the 12" twist .223 at 300 as it was ready to go.
Regards Grandpamac.

Targex 52gr HP would be worth considering.

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Originally Posted by feratox

F class is 223 and 308. 223 does ok at 1000. Pretty much the same drop as 308 depending on projectile, just more affected by the wind. I've been well outclassed by an 80-something year old with a 223 (though with my talent it probably doesn't say much)

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In F-TR, you can choose to shoot a .223 rather than a .308 but it requires a fast twist once you get past 500yds. In the distant past at Roy's hill, I shot a few possibles with light projectiles out of my slow-twist 700VS at 500 but they got murdered in the wind at 600. 1000 is DEF out of the question Neil.

If you changed to a fast twist 28"+ bbl and shot 77-80 grainers, you could have a play at 1000 but it wouldn't be very competitive. Stu would still be caning your butt.. :)

Just for an experiment, you could try some 53 VMax at our next 600yd shoot. They have one of the best BCs in their weight class

Greetings @6x47,
Thanks for that. I have a bit of testing to do and the back up plan is my Tikka T3 with 69 grain HPBT. I will try and get out for the next 300 yard shoot and will let you know prior. As for Stu caning my butt this started some time ago.
GPM.

If your Tikka is 1:8 then I'd run it . . . Either ballast up the current stock (or a replacement plastic one ) or run it in a chassis. A heck of a lot cheaper than a revarrel and Ive never seen a Tikka barrel "walk" at the rate of fire you'd be doing in FTR. Cheers Grandpa Foster!

Not uncommon at our range to have 2 sighters + 10 counters away in under 3 mins if the conditions allow.

Greetings All,
Today dawned fine and reasonably still so up to my 200 metre range to test the 60 grain VMax. First some shots were fired with the 55 grain to check they were zeroed. Yes two shots in 25mm. Next the 60 grain VMax. Two shots under 20mm and nice round holes about 100mm low and left so yes they do stabilise with a 12" twist. Not bad for salvaged projectiles. Next the T3 got fished out of the cupboard and 2 shots put down range. The T3 had its scope set well forward for shooting prone (now a lost cause for me) so I thought it would be a good time to move it back for the bench shooting. The first scope screw was loose. Hmmm. Finished repositioning the scope and went up to get my target. One shot was where expected and the other awaaay to the right. By now it was getting hot and a mirage was developing so called it quits for the day.
Decisions. Use the T3 with its standard load with the 69 grain SMK at 2,950 fps at 300 yards. The 10 power scope has a finer reticle than the 3-12 and is just as accurate as the VSSF. Use the latter for 4P shoots at 100 and 200 metres (3P for me see above) and move to the 60 grain VMax over time. Next I need to chronograph the 60 grain test loads.
Regards Grandpamac.

Using a Sako 85 223 1 in 8 twist here with 60g Nosler Ballistic tips @3100 fps

Accurate to 840 yrds but at 880yrds they go through the target sideways