Q1 COAL ...a novice reloader question.

This is Q1 of what may be many over the next few months if I cannot find the answer else where... and yes it does feel like I am staring down the rabbit hole with a voice in my head shouting.... "DON'T JUMP!!!!!

I do have my head around COAL and the value of a COAL/jump matched to a rifle... but having this knowledge raises a question....

Q1, Is there any real value adjusting the COAL of new factory loads to suit my gun?

If so...then is there a preferred method of moving the projectile out from the cartridge a little before re-seating to the desired length in a press?

I can't see the point decreasing jump in a factory load.
Your going to pull the bullet out a little then re-size? You should really size the neck again if your going to do that. I wouldn't want to do that with powder and a primer in the case, especially as a beginner hand loader. Even if you do all that there's no guarantee it will shoot any better. You will have to try a few different jumps, or load test to find out.... Not to mention that you would be doing this with a "max" load assuming your just keeping all the factory powder in there.
And changing jump is really only a fine tune.
After all this effort you may as well just make a handload for your rifle in the usual manner. Your playing with fire a bit trying to alter factory loads, maybe an experienced handloader could work though it to get it done, but I doubt any would bother and would just make a load.
Don't blow yourself up.

thanks... this is why i ask....

no silly questions right?

Correct no silly questions! One less Darwin Award winner and one more enlightened hand loader. Well answered bully.

Safe to increase COAL with a kinetic puller. No spillage of powder involved unless you tap so hard the bullet flies right out. Then push back to required length. Simple.

I'd echo the sentiment above, at least I'd not bother.

Hi LBD ,

As above, shoot em all off, then reload them to your COAL.

As a new reloader I found that I was doing things that just didn't matter one way or the other,:XD: like sorting .357 projectiles by weight into lots.
(I think target shooters do this to help with accuracy, but for a 357, pointless. I didn't know that at the time)

It's inevitable that this will happen. To me pulling factory ammo to bits just isn't worth it, unless there's an obvious problem.

Let us know what you're reloading for at some stage. It'll help us with answering your questions.:)

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Originally Posted by LBD

This is Q1 of what may be many over the next few months if I cannot find the answer else where... and yes it does feel like I am staring down the rabbit hole with a voice in my head shouting.... "DON'T JUMP!!!!!

I do have my head around COAL and the value of a COAL/jump matched to a rifle... but having this knowledge raises a question....

Q1, Is there any real value adjusting the COAL of new factory loads to suit my gun?

If so...then is there a preferred method of moving the projectile out from the cartridge a little before re-seating to the desired length in a press?

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First decide weather your preferred factory load does what you need, only change it, if it does not.

Quite safe to knock projectile out with a kinetic puller ( just as Cordite says), it is a normal practice. Then use a regular seating die to put it back where you want it. If you get a bit excited and knock the projectile clean out, you just put it back together again (assuming your hammer is not full of other crap). Loaded projectiles that have sat for a long time (years), benefit from a smack and reseat if you were a target type shooter.

A tactic I have been guilty of from time to time with factory loads if forced to go down that route, is to pull the projectiles, measure the powder charge, cross reference load data and sacrifice one round for it's powder and use that powder to "top up" the other 19 cartridges in the box. The factories generally lie about velocity.

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Originally Posted by Max Headroom

Hi LBD ,
Let us know what you're reloading for at some stage. It'll help us with answering your questions.:)

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This question pertains to the 6.5 cm, but will reload 223 as well. both bolt actions and aiming for precision.

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Originally Posted by LBD

This question pertains to the 6.5 cm, but will reload 223 as well. both bolt actions and aiming for precision.

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Ok, it's a 6.5 mm, there are a few varieties. Is it a 6.5x55 swede or something else?.

cm = Creedmoor

Cheers

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Originally Posted by 257weatherby

First decide weather your preferred factory load does what you need, only change it, if it does not.

Quite safe to knock projectile out with a kinetic puller ( just as Cordite says), it is a normal practice. Then use a regular seating die to put it back where you want it. If you get a bit excited and knock the projectile clean out, you just put it back together again (assuming your hammer is not full of other crap). Loaded projectiles that have sat for a long time (years), benefit from a smack and reseat if you were a target type shooter.

A tactic I have been guilty of from time to time with factory loads if forced to go down that route, is to pull the projectiles, measure the powder charge, cross reference load data and sacrifice one round for it's powder and use that powder to "top up" the other 19 cartridges in the box. The factories generally lie about velocity.

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Knowing what the factory powder is how exactly? I wouldn’t recommend this.

Also, a lot of factory ammo is crimped, so a bugger to pull. Shoot and start again as suggested.

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Originally Posted by 7x64

Knowing what the factory powder is how exactly? I wouldn’t recommend this.

Also, a lot of factory ammo is crimped, so a bugger to pull. Shoot and start again as suggested.

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Chrony and a little research tells everything you need to know.
A lot?......... some, I must be doing something wrong, I don't seem to have any trouble pulling crimped ammo, will make an effort to make it difficult in future.

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Originally Posted by LBD

thanks... this is why i ask....

no silly questions right?

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It's kind of like asking your new girlfriend for a threesome.... You don't really know how well it will go down, best learn the rules before you break them.
Stay safe. ( Learn to do a basic handload , get tricky after that. Or choose another factory round)

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Originally Posted by bully

It's kind of like asking your new girlfriend for a threesome.... You don't really know how well it will go down, best learn the rules before you break them.
Stay safe. ( Learn to do a basic handload , get tricky after that. Or choose another factory round)

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Yeah but if she say yes ;)

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Originally Posted by 7mm Rem Mag

Yeah but if she say yes ;)

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Her reply would probably depend on which of your mates you suggested as the third party....

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Originally Posted by LBD

Her reply would probably depend on which of your mates you suggested as the third party....

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I think you just answered your own question don't f--k with factory ammo or it could end up biting you in the ass :fire:

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Originally Posted by 7mm Rem Mag

Yeah but if she say yes ;)

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Your still playing with fire.... You showed her more attention, but why.......

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Originally Posted by LBD

Her reply would probably depend on which of your mates you suggested as the third party....

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Her mates, as in female.

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Originally Posted by bully

Her mates, as in female.

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Oh.... right....

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Originally Posted by LBD

cm = Creedmoor

Cheers

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And here was me thinking you had a 65 mm cannon, I wanted pictures oh well.

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Originally Posted by Marty Henry

And here was me thinking you had a 65 mm cannon, I wanted pictures oh well.

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That's funny... Hand loading a 65mm....

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Originally Posted by bully

Her mates, as in female.

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I think if she asked a good looking female mate then all good however a bloke mate of yours I think is when "Honey I feel a headache coming on" and a reach for the panadol comes into play, it's either that or waking up for the next 2-3 days with a sore ass.

Now @LBD you may be asking yourself the question "what the hell does tampering with factory ammo have to do with a threesome"? Well the simple answer to that question is we have perverted yet genius minds so if you play with the factory ammo and it works sweet then you are having a threesome with her mate and all is good but if you tamper with the factory ammo and it explodes your riffle to bits then it's like having a threesome with your mate.

Another example as the Lonely Island put it (it's ok when it's in a three way) however I'm not so sure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pi7gwX7rjOw

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Originally Posted by LBD

That's funny... Hand loading a 65mm....

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Here ya go

Don't do it. COAL isn't what you're after. It's the ogive length as in some bullets you'll find variances in length going from tip to base. The ogive stays the same and it's that distance to the lands you want. You'll need something like the hornady comparator tool and a modified case etc to do it properly.(you can make your own) At the vary least pull a bullet just slightly neck size a fired case( with no powder, primer) so it only holds the bullet lightly and close the bolt on it a few times repeating the process. This should give you the just touch length then back off 10"min, but isn't as accurate and if the bullet sticks a fraction in the rifling will give you a false reading. It works but has it's prickles if not done properly. I almost got caught using the right gear yesterday. I couldn't get the right jump, head space either. I thought it was a die problem but then find I have a slightly over length chamber. Not a problem in its self but what I didn't notice was new brass and a different caliber that my primer tool was leaving the primers a couple of thou proud in the the cases. Doesn't do it with any other and now adjusted all is good. Luckily I noticed the vernier rocking when I was measuring. If you're going to do it get the right gear and do it properly or you could be heading for a nasty surprise. Not all factory ammo is loaded down and not all guns shoot the same. A bullet jammed into the lands won't be a fun experience with a hot load behind it. If you do decide to have a go then take your time and check then check and finally check again. As above I would't bother , I'd just reload to what I wanted. Good luck

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Originally Posted by r87mm

D It's the ogive length as in some bullets you'll find variances in length going from tip to base. The ogive stays the same and it's that distance to the lands you want.

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Thanks R87mm.... got that, the COAL will vary with projectile profile and ogive position.. the distance to the lands and hence the COAL will need to be determined for every projectile shape.

Cheers

yes and no.....if you happen to have a factory load that shoots pretty good in your rifle... that uses similar projectile to what you intend to reload...use that factory load as your "dummy" round (to set your seating die ). I did that for years with an old school silvertip load with every projectile I used and results were ok..... the ONLY projectile that stuffs that theory up for me is a big fat round nose,in theory and it seems to be happening lately the super sleek modern jobbies are temperamental with seating dies eg some wont work and are damaging tips etc as the very point is enguaging instead of the ring at oglive....

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

,in theory and it seems to be happening lately the super sleek modern jobbies are temperamental with seating dies eg some wont work and are damaging tips etc as the very point is enguaging instead of the ring at oglive....

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Being a Creedmoor... I will be using those sleek modern temperamental jobbies...

Accuracy?... still breaking it in... only 80 rounds so far... but room for improvement (More me than the gun)

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Originally Posted by Marty Henry

Here ya go

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Yup....too big for the Lock n load press

well it is a muzzle loader so lead will be fine/legal...not 100% sure on the guage restrictions.

Okay, so I had a play...

Bought a Chrono, a proper bullet puller and an OAL gauge.

I measured the Maximum COAL for my gun and found the jump to be 2.3mm with the 147gn ELD 6.5 creedmoor projectiles.... yes that is correct.

I then re-seated 5 rounds at plus 2 mm but found the round was too long for the Mag. so I set them to plus 1.25mm and they cycled well.

On the chrono, the 5 longer rounds were 10FPS on average faster than the std factory rounds.

I am now looking to replace the polymer AICS mag with a steel AICS mag. which I believe will let me easily go to plus 2.25mm over the std factory COAL.

Accuracy... both groups similar... 25mm @ 200m.