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After my mate passed up on a 300m shot at a very big stag on Saturday, it has got me thinking do i need to step up in cal and do a "superpig" since i have cut my 308 so short.Id rather be prepared for the unexpected. Its got roughly 12.5inchs of effective barrel length. Would loading something like a 130ttsx , 125accubond etc give me enough poke for those sort of ranges? Im using factory ammunition currently
Id be looking more at a 125 balistic tip than a accubond for the reduced velocity.
What are you running currently and how fast will it push it?
how far can you CONSISTANTLY hit a 3ltr milk jug of water?????
thats your chest shot maximum range.......
think its Scott Trail who uses one with 10" barrel......there was article on it that covered the bits you want to know. dialup is essential
Factory 150gr soft point lapua projectiles, have the reloading gear but havent bothered as typically bush hunt. No idea what its spitting out asQuote:
Originally Posted by veitnamcam
I ran the 130ttsx for a fair while out to 300 or just over and ran amax for any further, that was launching them out at 3150fps from memory. You wont be anywhere near that velocity and they need decent speed to work well.
Id be looking at light varmint projectiles or possibly 30-30 or 7.62x39 projectiles but still 300y could be a big ask depending on the velocity you can get.
I was getting 2372 from memory with a 16" .308 so about 14" effective and that was reliable and accurate regularly took animals at 300 mtrs no worries . I shot steel at 500 often but probably would have called 400 my cut off with it on animals bassed on group size at 500 that was 180 sst
so going by the speed Kelton suggests.....you have in effect turned it into a 7.62x39mm but with better projectile selection and more accurate..... I would happily use the x39mm to 150 yards....as said above if you can consistantly hit a 3ltr milk jug at a given range,you can place projectile in deers vitals at the same....having enough energy/penertration to go in and do the damage is a other whole can of worms...use your judgement as at end of day thats the only judgement that really matters.
178g eldx out of a 12" with n150 powder, 2447fps. 11 clicks up on my leica and in at 248m bang on.. can easily push that out to double, then I'd be pushing it. .
Thats impressive to get that speed !Quote:
Originally Posted by Larskramer
How far out have you used it on game and had good results?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUXJ4icGjtI
It can be done...I know someone who used one of these.
It’s all in the bullet. Gotta be a soft bullet, so the two you’ve suggested @<u><a href="https://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co.nz/member.php?u=5192" target="_blank">matto1234</a></u> would be at the top of my list to definitely not use.
A thin skinned, soft lead alloy cup & core design with a thin jacket on the ogive. Definitely go with a heavy bullet, to maximise retained energy. At 300m, a 190gr ELD-M is going to hit with ~30% more energy than a 125gr Accubond. A soft heavy bullet makes a big bloody hole even at low velocities.
The weakness is loopy trajectory. As MD says, at longer ranges, you’ll want to dial, or have a well understood BDC reticle as a minimum. Either way, you require a thorough drop test to validate ballistics. Once you know your drops, loopy trajectory doesn’t matter so long as you can range accurately. My slow and heavy load’s range card that I carry in the field is in 10m increments, the angle at which the bullet is falling at 300m+ is very steep, so ranging and calculations need to be precise.
Deer I’ve shot with my .308 at sub- 2,000fps impact velocity, with either the 165gr GameKing or Speer BTSP, or 168gr A-Max, and have had dirty great big bleeds and the deer passed very quickly. 2,000fps equates to ~350m in my rifle.
I shot two mature red hinds in quick succession at a bit lower speed - 1,900fps or so - in front of @<u><a href="https://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co.nz/member.php?u=8312" target="_blank">Wingman</a></u> once and I’m sure he’ll remember the claret fountain out of the one as it fell over. The other died instantly I think. That was Speer BTSP. Soft and heavy bullets work well down to quite low velocities, so your max effective range will be governed by when your bullet passes below a certain velocity, say 1750fps or even lower.
Several good sources of info on which bullets to use. You need one that fits the classic “long range” description for it’s terminal ballistics at low speeds. Higher BC means higher retained velocity and energy, so even if you’re only shooting 300m, every bit counts.
This guy has got it worked out. Check out the wounding.
https://youtu.be/8di1L9NBR0U
Yes I recall it well, I was spotting through a 21X scope and snapped a few pics off too. The first one stumbled for about 3 steps and then rolled down the hill a bit landing with the exit wound upward and a red geyser on full display. The second animal that was laying down stood up and @Flyblown quickly encouraged it to lay down again, it dropped on the spot and rolled down the face until it got caught up in some scrub.
Like he said, heaviest bullets your barrel will shoot but light jackets, even match bullets are often the best for lower velocity kills.
https://i.ibb.co/tXyhgfd/20191021-162718.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/F571XZC/20191021-162740.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/mtSVw2M/20191021-163821.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/LgDvxtD/20191021-164111.jpg
Here’s another example of a .308 low velocity exit hole, this one was 425m. Only a small animal but bigger animals aren’t immune. The blood pouring out of this wound was something else.
Attachment 142678
I run 168eldm at 2580fps at mag length in my 15 inch 308 3shots touching @100 haven't tryed them out on deer yet... Here's sterlock drop chart of 168eldm @2400fps with 200 meter zero
Attachment 142694
248m and dropped on the spot, obliterated the heart/lungsQuote:
Originally Posted by veitnamcam
Must be made out anti gravity lead :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Larskramer
have a look at the hornady ftx projs .I used to load up 160s for a mate running a 308 no 4 so loaded down to about 2500max fps but way faster than a 30/30 , they were devastating at all ranges out to 350 m and you can get them in a 140 grn aswell .
Its a good projectile, I have used it quite a bit but launched at between 2975 and 3000fps depending on brass.Quote:
Originally Posted by Larskramer
I always worked to a self imposed minimum impact velocity of 2000fps or above but that is at longer ranges where placement might not be ideal.
The internet recon's they work down to about 1800fps but I have never tried them that far out.
Edit, sorry I was using the amax....same as the eldm.
Sent from my S60 using Tapatalk
Interesting, I recently started loading the ftx 160s for my 16.5 inch 308, mild load (published starting load) chronyed at 2350fps. Only used on the range so far, but they did group well (they didn't group well in my 30-30).Quote:
Originally Posted by m101a1
I wouldn’t touch standard monos out of a 12” barrel for a 300m shot on a big deer if you paid me five times my asking price. Recipe for disaster. There’s more than enough evidence of poor mono expansion at lower impact velocity, from all over the world, god forbid you miss the shoulder and get the ribs and rear lungs. See ya later long runner.
I agreeQuote:
Originally Posted by Flyblown
Light mono's going fast are great in the bush, but further out heavy and soft wins the race.
Must tell the missus that oneQuote:
Originally Posted by winaa
Thats interesting just got marlin dark but need range open , got 100s 160s but also got 140s which I hope to use .Maybe a factory crimp die is the biz for 30/30 .Quote:
Originally Posted by Cigar
After years of using a 150sst I’ve changed tack and been sucked into the heavy and relatively high BC world, which means a 178eld-x. Haven’t used them in anger yet but they group exceptionally well (0.5MOA) and apparently expand down to 1600fps, which is about 600yd from a 19in barrel. I’m not planning to shoot beyond 450yd but looking forward to see how they perform at different ranges and whether they are a true all rounder as advertised
its beyond me WHY folks try to get an alrounder like that......a awesome up close n personal big fat round nose wont be beaten up close and the 200yard plus shot always has time to change out the load....if it didnt you couldnt take the shot....
Id be bloody sceptical of that claim especially from the x vs the m......maybe they expand after punchingthrew 12 inches of bull moose shoulder and bone but i doubt any meaningful expansion on our small light game species.Quote:
Originally Posted by 7.62
I would love to be proven wrong tho.
It’s the holy grail of projectiles Micky. No pissing around with 2 different loads, just fill the mag and use the same load whether in the bush or on the tops. To be fair manufacturers have been trying to crack this for years and haven’t quite nailed it. The eld-x sounds like a fair attempt but I won’t be convinced until I’ve shot some animals at different ranges, will let ya know:thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
Yes I’m sceptical about the 1600fps claim as well. Can’t imagine a lot of expansion on a fallow spiker at that velocity! Time will tell but I’m wanting to believe Hornady’s propaganda :D https://www.hornady.com/support/faqs...-core-separateQuote:
Originally Posted by veitnamcam
I wouldn't trust the eldx below 1900fps but the eldm is supposed to be good to 1400fps. I run eldms at 2730 and have run them around the same speed in another calibre and have shot small fallow up close to red and sika stags at 80~ then a big red spiker at 300~. Have tried lots of projectiles and am yet to find a better all rounder provided you don't run them at silly speeds up close
So to answer the OP depending on the projectile and shooter you should be comfy at 300m. Personally I would run the 168eldm and 2208 because of the slower speed and bullet construction you should be pretty happy if you place your shots appropriately eg not the point of the shoulder on a big stag at 15m
If you really want to push its range and have a 1-10" twist try some Hornady 190gr SubX bullets, they expand all the way down to 900fps
Watch the video in post #11 @veitnamcam... go to 2m30s for the interesting bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by veitnamcam
it’s an eye-opener for sure.
It would annoy me using it for anything other than a bush rifle. I'd prolly use 125-130gr something with 2206h.
What brand of rifle is it? A few cheap remmy and tikka barrels come up from other projects
I know...I know....the nosler partition comes close,it just doesnt have the high BC for extended ranges...but I guess if you rangefinding and twiddling n fiddling with scope it matters not a hoot.Quote:
Originally Posted by 7.62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingman
Hmmm. Do they stabilise out of a 1 in 10 at 100yards
According to Hornady they were designed to be stable at sub velocities from a 1-10" to 1-7" twist. Shot at 2400fps ish in a 1-10" should be a good short barrel bullet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pengy
You are basically shooting a pistol,I would be looking at that data if you don’t have a chrono.even the adi powder load data for pistols is through a 15in barrel I think.
But 2400 is far from subsonic, so defeats the object . Guess it was a typoQuote:
Originally Posted by Wingman
No it was intentional.. as per the original question in the post he wanted to know a max range with the best bullet for terminal effect from short barrel with reduced velocity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pengy
This 190gr subx will extend the range due to its ability to expand at much lower speeds
Attachment 143079
Works great at 20m, got some 180 grainers on the way to do some development with
