Reloading for 6.5 Creed & 300WM - Confirming Research

As above, pretty green to reloading, havent done it for a number of years and have no prior experience with loading either of these calibres, however very keen to learn and this forum has proven to have a wealth of knowledge which has been great! :thumbsup:

Currently been using Hornady Precision Hunter factory ammo in both rifles with great results & im happy with how these projectiles work for now (143gr ELDX and 200gr ELDX), have a fair amount of brass collected for both calibres so im looking to start doing some handloads. likely will try the 178gr ELDX in the 300wm, also been looking into the berger vld-h

Spent a huge amount of hours reading through posts on this forum + other info from various companies, trying to narrow down the component list/work with whats available with the current component shortage, so figured before i pull the trigger on buying things i would run it past the forum and see if anyone has some ideas/recommendations to add.

Powder wise, with projectiles around the 140gr mark for the 6.5, superformance seems to be a winner if your chasing speed, however i see alot of you guys are also using 2209, RL16 aswell however that seems to be impossible to find. The 6.5 is a t3 with a 18 inch barrel, so would be nice to try pick up some of the lost velocity from docking it if i can, without getting too carried away.

My 300WM is a t3 aswell, standard 24 inch barrel length. 2217 seems to be the go to, have seen others suggest 2225 and 2209 aswell.

As above, not looking for record breaking speeds, hopefully just some recommendations on what has worked well for other members so i can have a good baseline to get going with & then look at exploring other powder/projectile options further down the track as components become available.

Thanks!

I've heard enough anecdotes about Superformance's temperature sensitivity, poor ES's, and only narrow ranges in which it gives good accuracy, that I have no interest in trying the stuff personally. AR2209/H4350 is the default powder most use for 6.5 Creedmoor while Re16 (if you can find it) can give a healthy boost in speed without the drawbacks of Superformance. If I wanted more speed than either of those could offer, I'd be on the lookout for a longer barrel.

For 300WM with heavy bullets, AR2225 and AR2217 should be ideal. AR2209 would be too fast burning, I reckon. What does the ADI data say?

I use Hodgdon superproformance in both the .260 and 6.5 Creedmoor with 143 eldx and have never had any issues with it.
Velocity is very good with low SD in single digits, it seems easy to find at the moment and meters very well.
My .260 is 18" getting 2810 fps and 20" Creedmoor the same so what's not to like.

Sent from my CPH2145 using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Pommy

I've heard enough anecdotes about Superformance's temperature sensitivity, poor ES's, and only narrow ranges in which it gives good accuracy, that I have no interest in trying the stuff personally. AR2209/H4350 is the default powder most use for 6.5 Creedmoor while Re16 (if you can find it) can give a healthy boost in speed without the drawbacks of Superformance. If I wanted more speed than either of those could offer, I'd be on the lookout for a longer barrel.

For 300WM with heavy bullets, AR2225 and AR2217 should be ideal. AR2209 would be too fast burning, I reckon. What does the ADI data say?

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Looking at the adi data i did conclude 2209 would be too fast, just saw a couple of posts saying people had used it so threw it in the mix to see what others had to say.

As far as the 6.5 is concerned, id love to get my hands on some RL16 but seems its rare as hens teeth currently. most likely going to start with 2209 and see where that leads.

The 178 eld-x will be hard to find, I haven’t seen any for sale for ages

2209 is the go to for the 6.5, if you can get hold of some, grab it and buy enough for the next couple of years. Approx 160 loads per 500gm tub. Dont discount Superformance, it is a nice powder to load with, it does perform, and so long as you are aware, dont leave your loaded rounds sitting in the sun its all good.

Another powder to try in the 300WM would be 7828. I use the 178 ELDX and it performs great out to nice long distances if that floats your boat. If you cant find any, then the 175 Targex usually shoot to the same poi with the same load. And the Targex perform well on wet targets. They are way more readily available, being made here in NZ.

Hi,
The 300 WM is one of my favourites. Love shooting mine, also a Tikka, but T3X.
The ELD-X 178 gn is one of my standard loads although for serious hunting ( my description ) I always shoot Barnes TTSX 180 gn. I find the ELD-X kills both bloody well and sometimes poorly which I think relates to bullet construction ( couldn't possibly be my shooting skills ;)) but it is very accurate and flat shooting in my rifle. I went through a bit of load development to arrive at my standard loads. My top powder is RL26 closely followed by AR2213sc and a bit further down in third place is AR2217. As the 300WM was originally planned around a 180 gn bullet at about 3000fps that is the performance I tried to achieve with handloads. RL26 and AR2213sc enabled me to reach the desired MVs while AR2217 maxed at a lower top MV but with quite good accuracy. Most of my most recent 300WM shooting has been with a load using AR2213sc as ( luckily ) I had stocked up and have it to burn. The more I shoot it the more I like this propellent. One good thing I found with AR2213sc, in both 300WM and other calibres, is that I always reach max case fill before reaching the overpressure zone and it's nice to have that safety feature when working up loads.
Best of luck finding the components you want. Hope you get some great shooting with your own loads.

You haven't told us what use you're putting these rifles to? Being realistic about (and defining) your needs and more importantly your expectations will help us guide you.

For the 6.5 Creedmoor AR2209 is a great place to start if you can get hold of some. Learning the loading/group testing process will be much cheaper with the Creedmoor as well.

Have you considered looking for a reloading mentor to get you started?

Pretty much mate

2209 for 6.5CM

2217 for 300wm up to say 190gr and then over to 2225 (2217 will still work with heavies)

For me anyway

I’m loading 80 grains 2217 with 178 ELD X for 3030fps Tikka T3

2209 / H4350 was the original powder used in the Hornady ammo produced at the Creedmoor launch.

That 18” barrel though will hinder the performance. You can expect to lose >100fps compared to a 24” barrel. This was properly tested by Rifleshooter shooter if IIRC.

Also there is the potential for your Tikka barrel to be quite slow - they tend to be a bit slower than other makes. Side-by-side performance of a T3 vs Howa (24”) shooting the exact same ammo gave a -60fps delta when tested a while back.

All up you could be down 150-200fps over a decent 24” barrel. We’ll see! I would expect a MV of around 2,500 - 2,550fps if things work out ok.

Having done a lot of longer range deer and goat shooting with the 143gr ELD-X, do you want a minimum terminal velocity ~1,900fps to get decent expansion and a decent exit. The 6.5mm 143gr ELD-X being so long and thin has a high SD which is great for penetration but it doesn’t create particularly wide mushrooms at lower impact velocity. It does however have the advantage of being very accurate and precise and as long as you are on the money the animal is going down.

1,900fps equates to ~650m in my rifle (24”) but in yours it will likely be around 500m. Still plenty far enough though.

Most 2209 loads end up around 41-42gr. The wildcard here is that Hornady brass - it has a reputation of being quite soft and not lasting long. On the 6.5 Creedmoor forum back in the day, guys were reporting loose primer pockets after just a couple of firings.

Personally if I was going to get into reloading the Creedmoor I would not bother with the Hornady brass and I would hang out for some Lapua SRP. That brass has been tested with hot loads and found to stay the course for a long, long time. I remember one bunch on YouTube tested it to 20 firings before giving up and admitting defeat - the brass was still fine and within spec. That was a hot 43gr load too.

Good luck and keep the questions coming (some feedback on how you go would be nice too).

if you get stuck win760 work ok

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Originally Posted by Flyblown

2209 / H4350 was the original powder used in the Hornady ammo produced at the Creedmoor launch.

That 18” barrel though will hinder the performance. You can expect to lose >100fps compared to a 24” barrel. This was properly tested by Rifleshooter shooter if IIRC.

Also there is the potential for your Tikka barrel to be quite slow - they tend to be a bit slower than other makes. Side-by-side performance of a T3 vs Howa (24”) shooting the exact same ammo gave a -60fps delta when tested a while back.

All up you could be down 150-200fps over a decent 24” barrel. We’ll see! I would expect a MV of around 2,500 - 2,550fps if things work out ok.

Having done a lot of longer range deer and goat shooting with the 143gr ELD-X, do you want a minimum terminal velocity ~1,900fps to get decent expansion and a decent exit. The 6.5mm 143gr ELD-X being so long and thin has a high SD which is great for penetration but it doesn’t create particularly wide mushrooms at lower impact velocity. It does however have the advantage of being very accurate and precise and as long as you are on the money the animal is going down.

1,900fps equates to ~650m in my rifle (24”) but in yours it will likely be around 500m. Still plenty far enough though.

Most 2209 loads end up around 41-42gr. The wildcard here is that Hornady brass - it has a reputation of being quite soft and not lasting long. On the 6.5 Creedmoor forum back in the day, guys were reporting loose primer pockets after just a couple of firings.

Personally if I was going to get into reloading the Creedmoor I would not bother with the Hornady brass and I would hang out for some Lapua SRP. That brass has been tested with hot loads and found to stay the course for a long, long time. I remember one bunch on YouTube tested it to 20 firings before giving up and admitting defeat - the brass was still fine and within spec. That was a hot 43gr load too.

Good luck and keep the questions coming (some feedback on how you go would be nice too).

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Thanks for the advice!

Actually picked up 2kg of 2209 from Serious Shooters (great bunch of blokes) today, so thats what ill be starting with for the creedmoor. :thumbsup:

As far as distance, longest shot either of these 18 inch tikkas will be taking would be 350-400 at the very upper end. majority of shooting being 100-250 (has been till now anyway using the factory precision hunter ammo.

Regarding the brass, funny you should mention this, i have been looking into the brass thing alot. ever since i started using the precision hunter ammo, i have noticed (more often than not) heavy ish bolt lift and swiping marks on the base of the case after firing. full disclosure - im a complete rookie in regards to reloading and properly diagnosing these things at this stage, and im not sure how much heavy bolt lift is too much, or if im just overthinking it. ill post up some pictures of the brass if i can get a good one with my phone and hopefully yourself or someone else more experienced than i can offer some input, but to me it seems like the precision hunter is very hot, or the brass is particularly soft, or both. from my research i have found people saying hornady brass is quite soft, alot of people recommended norma brass, so this afternoon i picked up a pack of the norma bondstrike 143gr. if it shoots well i plan to swap to that for the near future and once ive punched through a couple more packets have enough norma brass collected to load that instead.

Ill keep an eye out for lapua brass, but by the sounds of things (correct me if im wrong) the norma should be more than sufficient, im not trying to shoot far with this gun or chase MV / Run really hot loads. For the distance i want these rifles to shoot at i dont see any need to go chasing speed.

Cheers for your input!

Hard to get a picture of the 6.5 cases that show it clearly but my .308 is doing the same thing. not quite as bad on the 6.5 compared to the .308 but very similar symptoms. looks like the whole base of the case has been flattend, radius into the primer pocket now has a sharp edge/deformed and big stamp/swipe from the ejector.

tikka t3 "bushmaster" 16 inch, factory precision hunter 178gr eldx loads.
Attachment 214676

Also be aware that you will get apparent pressure signs with any load if the rifle chamber has oil/lube in it or on the brass cases. Make sure you mop out the rifle barrel and chamber when you take the rifle out to go shoot it.

Primers show normal pressure. Roarless20 brings up a good point often overlooked by many shooters.

Fairly certain that isnt the issue however i am going to the range again this weekend to sight in now the issue i had with rings is sorted, will double check its cleaned of all oil before we go, picked up some different ammo to try aswell so will try that + try the precision hunter ammo again and see if it still spits out cases that look like the above.

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Originally Posted by 10-Ring

Primers show normal pressure. Roarless20 brings up a good point often overlooked by many shooters.

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I always make sure i clean the oil out of my rifles before going hunting/shooting however didnt think about having oil in there & that it could potentially cause cases to come out looking like this so thats good to know!

N160 or 2209 for your 6.5
2217 for the 300