Thread: Reloading military brass

Hey guys,
So I've heard so many arguments about the differences between 223 and 5.56, and 7.62x51 and 308 (military vs non military stuff). Talking about case thickness, increased pressure etc etc and how there's a difference. Yet I've also heard many people say it's a load of crap and if you can get the military primers out of the brass initially, you can load it up as it's no different.

I was wondering what your take is on it? (if you know) in the context of reloading, is there any real difference (other than having a tough primer to get out) between say, Remington 308 brass and this military stuff.

I've just got a few hundred once fired, resized, deprimed and cleaned bits of military 308 brass. Ready to load. Is there anything I have to watch out for?

Weight check em and bin any really heavy or light then work up

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It is thicker walled (or at least heavier so presumably thicker wall / web) so approach max loads with caution

It is very inconsistent between and within headstamps so dont expect "BR" accuracy

Primer crimps are a one time hassle to cut out with your case neck chamfer tool

Dunno really - if you are rattling off a gas gun then mint, if you care about things then buy a box of Lapua and never look back...

Originally Posted by Cyclist

It is thicker walled (or at least heavier so presumably thicker wall / web) so approach max loads with caution

It is very inconsistent between and within headstamps so dont expect "BR" accuracy

I should be so lucky to be able to run a 308 gas gun one day

Well that's something I've heard loads of people say... thicker walled...

I've just read a bunch of articles where some people have actually weighed, measured, checked the internal case volume etc and basically... they seemed to think there's no difference. In fact there's more variance between the civilian brass brands, and Federal came out on average heavier than the military stuff. But more people are saying there is a difference.

The below article was one but that's referencing 223/5.56 so probably isn't applicable.

Is 5.56x45 military brass thicker than .223 commercial brass?

I really want to know the truth to it. I've got a whole bunch of this stuff and I'm planning on necking it down to 7mm for my 708m for a combination of funsies and because some of my other brass is getting a bit tired.

I'll do some checking myself. Gotta find the time to have a play with it though.

The Rifleman's Journal: Cartridges: 1000 Yard .308 Case Capacity and Other Problems
probably way more than you'll ever want to know,sift and pick out the gems.This guy knows his onions.Good for a wet day
articles index

Military cases can also be Berdan primed (two flash holes inbuilt anvil) as opposed to Boxer Primed (one flash hole no built in anvil).
Centerfire ammunition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If you miss even one "Berdan Primed Case" you will break your decapping pin.

That said I use military brass all the time for reloading and have never had any issues except for the above.

I dont reload any Berdan Primed cases but have done so in the past and know of people who still do.

Cheers
Pete

I use 7.62 x 51 brass, sorted by brand and year. The same as not mixing .308 by brand.
If you start from minimum powder load for developing any load, no worries.

As mentioned, removing the primer crimp is a once off.

Good list (not complete) for brass, to let you watch out for Berdan primers.

Argentine, '83, [ FLB ], Berdan, three star crimp with green primer sealant. Other HS's FM or FS

Australian, '66, [MF ], Berdan, ring crimp with purple primer sealant. MF L2A2
Australian, '70, [MF ], Berdan, ring crimp with purple primer sealant.
Australian, '83, [AFF ], Berdan, ring crimp with purple primer sealant.
Australian, '83, [MF ], Berdan, ring crimp with purple primer sealant.
Australian, '85, [AFF ], Berdan, ring crimp with purple primer sealant.
Australian, '87, [AFF ], Berdan, ring crimp with purple primer sealant.
Australian, '88, [AFF ], Berdan, ring crimp with purple primer sealant.
Australian, '89, [MF ], Berdan, ring crimp with purple primer sealant. MF L2A2
Australian, '90, [AFF ], Berdan, ring crimp with purple primer sealant.
Australian, '91, [AFF ], Boxer, ring crimp with purple primer sealant.
Australian, '92, [ ADI ], Boxer, ring crimp with purple primer sealant.

Austria, '75, [ HP ], Berdan, three star crimp with dark green primer sealant. Other HS's H
Austria, '78, [ HP ], Berdan, three star crimp with no primer sealant visible.
Austria, '79, [ *79* ], Boxer, three star crimp with light green primer sealant.
Austria, '80, [ *80* ], Boxer, three star crimp with light green primer sealant.

Belgium, '64, [ FN ], Berdan, three star crimp with red primer sealant. NATO Cross
Belgium, '77, [ FN ], Berdan, three star crimp with purple primer sealant. NATO Cross
Belgium, '80, [ FNB ], Berdan, three star crimp with purple primer sealant. NATO Cross

Bosnian, '03, [IK], Boxer, ring crimp with bright red primer sealant. 7.62x51 IK

British, '84, [ RG ], Berdan, ring crimp with purple primer sealant. (Radway Green)
British, '85, [ RG ], Berdan, ring crimp with purple primer sealant. NATO Cross
British, '90, [ RG ], Boxer, ring crimp with red primer sealant. NATO Cross
British, '93, [ RG ], Berdan, ring crimp with purple primer sealant. NATO Cross
British, '95, [ RG ], Berdan, ring crimp with purple primer sealant. NATO Cross

Canadian '68, [ IVI ], Boxer, ring crimp with no primer sealant visible. NATO Cross
Canadian '70, [ IVI ], Boxer, ring crimp with no primer sealant visible. NATO Cross

Chile, '73, [ F. ], Berdan, ring crimp with dark green primer sealant. NATO Letters
Chile, '74, [ F. ], Berdan, ring crimp with dark green primer sealant. NATO Letters
Chile, '76, [ F. ], Berdan, ring crimp with dark green primer sealant. NATO Letters

Czechoslovakia, '69, [ ZV ], Berdan, ring crimp with black primer sealant.
Czech Republic, '82, [O O], Berdan, ring crimp with dark red primer sealant.

Denmark, '63, [AMA], Berdan, three star crimp with purple primer sealant. NATO Cross
Denmark, '76, [AMA], Berdan, three star crimp with purple primer sealant.
Denmark, '78, [AMA], Berdan, three star crimp with purple primer sealant.
Denmark, '81, [AMA], Berdan, three star crimp with purple primer sealant.
Denmark, '82, [AMA], Berdan, three star crimp with green primer sealant.
Denmark, '83, [AMA], Berdan, three star crimp with green primer sealant.
Denmark, '84, [AMA], Berdan, three star crimp with green primer sealant.
Denmark, '85, [AMA], Berdan, three star crimp with green primer sealant.
Denmark, '86, [AMA], Berdan, three star crimp with green primer sealant.
Denmark, '87, [AMA], Berdan, three star crimp with green primer sealant.
Denmark, '88, [AMA], Berdan, three star crimp with green primer sealant.
Denmark, '91, [AMA], Berdan, three star crimp with green primer sealant.
Denmark, '92, [AMA], Berdan, three star crimp with green primer sealant.
Denmark, '93, [AMA], Berdan, three star crimp with green primer sealant.
Denmark, '95, [AMA], Berdan, three star crimp with green primer sealant.
Denmark, '96, [AMA], Berdan, three star crimp with green primer sealant.


German, '59, [ MEN ], Berdan, three star crimp with no primer sealant visible. NATO Logo
German, '59, [ MS ], Berdan, three star crimp with green primer sealant. NATO Logo
German, '60, [ MS ], Berdan, three star crimp with green primer sealant. NATO Logo
German, '69, [ MEN ], Berdan, three star crimp with green primer sealant. NATO Logo
German, '76, [ DAG ], Boxer, three star crimp with green primer sealant. NATO Logo
German, '88, [ MEN ], Berdan, three star crimp with green primer sealant. NATO Logo
German, '93, [ DAG ], Berdan, three star crimp with green primer sealant. NATO Logo
German, '94, [ MEN ], Berdan, three star crimp with green primer sealant. NATO Logo

Greek, '80, [HXP ], Boxer, three star crimp with green primer sealant. NATO Cross

Indian, '78, [ OFV ], Boxer, ring crimp with no primer sealant visible.
Indian, '93, [ KF ], Boxer, ring crimp with no primer sealant visible.
Indian, '97, [ OFV ], Boxer, ring crimp with no primer sealant visible.

Indonesian, '85, [ PINDAD ], Berdan, three star crimp with green primer sealant.

Israel, '70, [ת צ], ring crimp with red primer sealant visible. month-year
Israel, '71, [ת צ], ring crimp with red primer sealant visible. month-year
Israel, '72, [ת צ], ring crimp with red primer sealant visible. month-year
Israel, '73, [ת צ], ring crimp with red primer sealant visible. month-year
Israel, '74, [ת צ], Boxer, ring crimp with red primer sealant visible. month-year
Israel, '75, [ת צ], Boxer, ring crimp with red primer sealant visible.
Israel, '76, [ת צ], Boxer, ring crimp with red primer sealant visible.
Israel, '84, [IMI], Boxer, ring crimp with purple primer sealant visible.

Lake City, '58, [ LC ], Boxer, ring crimp with red primer sealant. NATO Cross
Lake City, '63, [ LC Match ], Boxer, zero crimp with red primer sealant. year
Lake City, '64, [ LC MATCH], Boxer, zero crimp with red primer sealant. MATCH LC year M 118
Lake City, '65, [ LC Match ], Boxer, zero crimp with purple primer sealant. MATCH FA year M 118
Lake City, '66, [ LC ], Boxer, ring crimp with purple primer sealant. NATO Cross
Lake City, '66, [ LC MATCH], Boxer, zero crimp with red primer sealant. MATCH LC year M 118
Lake City, '70, [ LC ], Boxer, ring crimp with light red primer sealant. NATO Cross
Lake City, '70, [ LC Match ], Boxer, zero crimp with green primer sealant. MATCH LC year M 118
Lake City, '71, [ LC ], Boxer, ring crimp with red primer sealant. NATO Cross
Lake City, '81, [ LC Match ], Boxer, zero crimp with purple primer sealant. year
Lake City, '82, [ LC ], Boxer, ring crimp with red primer sealant.
Lake City, '84, [ LC ], Boxer, ring crimp with red primer sealant. NATO Cross
Lake City, '85, [ LC Match ], Boxer, zero crimp with red primer sealant. year
Lake City, '86, [ LC Match ], Boxer, zero crimp with red primer sealant. MATCH LC year M 852
Lake City, '87, [ LC ], Boxer, ring crimp with red primer sealant. NATO Cross
Lake City, '88, [ LC Match ], Boxer, zero crimp with red primer sealant. year NATO Cross M 118 SB
Lake City, '88, [ LC Match ], Boxer, zero crimp with red primer sealant. MATCH LC year M 852
Lake City, '89, [ LC ], Boxer, ring crimp with red primer sealant. NATO Cross
Lake City, '90, [ LC ], Boxer, ring crimp with red primer sealant. NATO Cross
Lake City, '91, [ LC ], Boxer, ring crimp with red primer sealant. NATO Cross
Lake City, '91, [ LC MATCH], Boxer, zero crimp with red primer sealant.
Lake City, '94, [ LC ], Boxer, ring crimp with red primer sealant. NATO Cross
Lake City, '95, [ LC ], Boxer, ring crimp with red primer sealant. NATO Cross
Lake City, '98, [ LC ], Boxer, ring crimp with red primer sealant. NATO Cross
Lake City, '04, [ LC LR ], Boxer, zero crimp with red primer sealant.

Lithuanian, '03, [ GGG ], Boxer, ring crimp with red primer sealant.
Lithuanian, '04, [ GGG ], Boxer, ring crimp with red primer sealant.

Malaysia, '82, [ MAL ], Berdan, three star crimp with dark red primer sealant. MAL 7.62 4-82
Malaysia, '83, [ MAL ], Berdan, three star crimp with dark red primer sealant. MAL 7.62 5-83

Nigeria, '70, [OFN ], Berdan, three star crimp with dark green primer sealant. O.F.N. 34-70 7.62x51

Pakistan, '79, [ POF ], Berdan, ring crimp with light red primer sealant.
Pakistan, '80, [ POF ], Berdan, ring crimp with light red primer sealant.

Paraguay, '79, [MDRP ], Berdan, ring crimp with light red primer sealant. 7.62x51 79-MDRP (France)
Paraguay, '80, [MDRP ], Boxer, ring crimp with light red primer sealant. 7.62x51 80 MDRP (Israel)

Portuguese, '76, [ FNM ], Berdan, three star crimp with green primer sealant. NATO Cross
Portuguese, '78, [ BF ], Berdan, three star crimp with green primer sealant. NATO Cross
Portuguese, '78, [ FNM ], Berdan, three star crimp with green primer sealant. NATO Cross
Portuguese, '79, [ BF ], Berdan, three star crimp with green primer sealant.
Portuguese, '80, [ BF ], Berdan, three star crimp with green primer sealant. NATO Cross
Portuguese, '81, [ FNM ], Berdan, three star crimp with no primer sealant visible.
Portuguese, '82, [ FNM ], Berdan, three star crimp with no primer sealant visible.
Portuguese, '92, [ FNM ], Berdan, ring crimp with green primer sealant.

Remington, '67, [RA ], Boxer, ring crimp with red primer sealant. NATO Cross

Serbia, '89, [ nny ], Berdan, ring crimp with red/orange primer sealant.
Serbia, '308 WIN, [ nny ], Boxer, ring crimp with red/orange primer sealant. '02

Singapore, '77, [ GG ], Berdan, ring crimp with light green primer sealant. 7.62 XX are dates
Singapore, '86, [ HF ], Berdan, ring crimp with light green primer sealant.

Spain, '80, [ SB ], Berdan, three star crimp with green primer sealant. (Santa Barbra)

South Africa, '77 [ R1M1 ], Berdan, three star crimp with purple primer sealant. 7.62 R1M1 A 77
South Africa, '79 [ R1M1 ], Berdan, three star crimp with purple primer sealant. 7.62 R1M1 A 79
South Africa, '80 [ R1M1 ], Berdan, three star crimp with purple primer sealant. 7.62 R1M1 WA 80
South Africa, '81 [ R1M1 ], Berdan, three star crimp with purple primer sealant. 7.62 R1M1 B 81
South Africa, '84 [ 12 ], Berdan, three star crimp with purple primer sealant. 12 84
South Africa, '98 [ 98 ], Berdan, three star crimp with purple primer sealant. 7.62mm 98 089D98

Sweden, '66, [ SM ], Berdan, three star crimp with green primer sealant.
Sweden, '72, [ 070 ], Berdan, three star crimp with dark purple primer sealant.

Twin Cities, '67, [TW ], Boxer, ring crimp with red primer sealant. NATO Cross
Twin Cities, '69, [TW ], Boxer, ring crimp with red primer sealant. NATO Cross

United States, '64, [WRA], Boxer, ring crimp with red primer sealant. NATO Cross
United States, '66, [WRA], Boxer, ring crimp with red primer sealant. NATO Cross
United States, '86, [WCC], Boxer, ring crimp with red primer sealant.
United States, '05, [FC], Boxer, ring crimp with purple primer sealant. 7.62 NATO Cross
United States, '10, [FC], Boxer, ring crimp with blue primer sealant. 7.62-M1A
United States, '11, [FC], Boxer, ring crimp with blue primer sealant. 7.62-M1A

Venezuelan, '89, [CAVIM ], Berdan, ring crimp with light green primer sealant.
Venezuelan, '90, [CAVIM ], Berdan, ring crimp with light green primer sealant.
Venezuelan, '90, [CAVIM ], Boxer, ring crimp with light green primer sealant silver primer.

Fark !

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Originally Posted by RimfireNZ

I should be so lucky to be able to run a 308 gas gun one day

Well that's something I've heard loads of people say... thicker walled...

I've just read a bunch of articles where some people have actually weighed, measured, checked the internal case volume etc and basically... they seemed to think there's no difference. In fact there's more variance between the civilian brass brands, and Federal came out on average heavier than the military stuff. But more people are saying there is a difference.

The below article was one but that's referencing 223/5.56 so probably isn't applicable.

Is 5.56x45 military brass thicker than .223 commercial brass?

I really want to know the truth to it. I've got a whole bunch of this stuff and I'm planning on necking it down to 7mm for my 708m for a combination of funsies and because some of my other brass is getting a bit tired.

I'll do some checking myself. Gotta find the time to have a play with it though.

I missed that bit, for a bolt action 7mm-08, you may have to neck turn the brass if necked down.

May but probably not

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Fek knows then! I have reloaded a fair old bit of mil .223 brass (TZZ, RG, JG, CJ, LC currently on the shelf) and and it is

A: Heavy and very low capacity compared the the Hornady stuff I use and
B: Crap

I can get 28.5 gn of 2206H into the Horny stuff and about 26 gn into most mil - that seems to me like it has less internal capacity or something? No doubt the internet will prove me wrong though

As above, unless you are broke or need to for some unknown reason just buy good brass and never think about it! 7/08 cases should get 10+ loads or more if you anneal once in a blue moon. 100 cases will last a fair old while of normal shooting (or just buy 50 Noslers or similar). I understand the appeal of using what you have and putting that big bag of brass to use etc, however often having lots of cases sounds good but means you easily get into the mess of having cases with an unknown number of firings / trim length / neck sized or full etc etc. Its easier to "only" have 50 or 100 and keep track of them.

If I only had 50 then I could keep track easily but have to reload them all again half way though a shooting competition day.

Yeah and I dont suspect that anybody wanting to neck Mil .308 down to 7/08 is shooting BR...

I have 5k+ cases and they are in pretty good order, it wasnt always like that and it was a major shitstorm

I picked up some FNB 5.56 brass, now that was the worse I've ever seen. Flash holes and primer pockets not even in line with the brass.

Cheers Dogmatix. By the way this all appears to be Lake City 07 stuff. It's only got a single primer hole.

I had a try at necking down to 7mm... didn't go well. I'm gonna start a new thread shortly.

I'm just doing this as a learning exercise. I use Remington brass generally and am very picky about my reloads.

I just want to make a 7mm out of a 308 that is able to fire so I can feel like a clever bastard