Thread: Rifle and reloaded ammo accuracy

Hi all,

When developing new loads for a specific rifle and purpose at what point do you stop. As in what level of accuracy at 100m is 'enough'

I'm think mostly small to medium game general hunting but also some mid range varminting with 223 but would like to here from anyone who reloads.

Thanks

What you as the shooter accept. I personally need mine to shoot at least 1/2 MOA at least every 2nd group or its not good enough. Most say 1 MOA is enough. It comes down to what you accept.

Nothing will walk away from 1moa but most rifles are capable of less. At any range it is external factors like wind, angle to target, shooting technique and position etc that have more effect than the rifles inherent accuracy unless of course it a rubbish gun.

I expect a rifle to group as good as I can shoot consistently.

If ya boil it down to real world ability and allow for bad days 1/2- 3/4 of an inch.
I have been shooting my rifle under that a lot but every now and then, a flyer or 2 caused by whatever means will blow a good run.



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Consistent, good grouping with holes touching for the 223 at the range for me, but off a bipod rather than full rested front and rear rifle. If I'm in the field, off a bipod, on a hillside after humping my sorry arse all over it, minute of rabbit is suitable, so I have where possible my range setup replicate what I use in the real world.

I'm reloading with VMAX and Sierra HP and 25.5gr 2206H, not crimped. 25gr gave me a good grouping, 25.5gr was better.

I loaded some Sierra 52gr hpbt which grouped 0.5 inch or less at 100m at range with front and rear rest. However I'm a bit concerned about using them on game so I'm now trying 55gr Sierra game king as it seems a better all rounder + is cheap in bulk in Australia. Initial loads were a bit over MOA @ 100m, hoping to get closer to 1/2 inch
@Kscott what Sierra hp are you using?

I would take a rifle back to the shop I brought it from if it couldn't shoot 1moa and would keep thinkering with it until it shoots 1/2moa but then I am fairly obsessive\compilsive.

Originally Posted by Gibo

What you as the shooter accept. I personally need mine to shoot at least 1/2 MOA at least every 2nd group or its not good enough. Most say 1 MOA is enough. It comes down to what you accept.

Originally Posted by R93

I expect a rifle to group as good as I can shoot consistently.

If ya boil it down to real world ability and allow for bad days 1/2- 3/4 of an inch.
I have been shooting my rifle under that a lot but every now and then, a flyer or 2 caused by whatever means will blow a good run.



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Pretty much these for me. I am happy enough with 15mm at 100m (1.2 MOA)for the 243's and 7mmR, and 12-13mm at 100m for the 223's. For cheap hunting rifles that is good enough for me.

Originally Posted by Floody

I loaded some Sierra 52gr hpbt which grouped 0.5 inch or less at 100m at range with front and rear rest. However I'm a bit concerned about using them on game so I'm now trying 55gr Sierra game king as it seems a better all rounder + is cheap in bulk in Australia. Initial loads were a bit over MOA @ 100m, hoping to get closer to 1/2 inch
@Kscott what Sierra hp are you using?

I'm using 52gr Sierra HP MatchKings from Reloaders
Sierra .224 Cal 52gr HPBT Matchking #1410 - 22cal - Rifle Projectiles - Projectiles - Reloaders Supplies Ltd

Worked on a deer at Easter this year, neck shot.



But your mileage may vary. I also do believe in the importance of range shooting in a similar style you'll be doing actual field shooting.

Originally Posted by gadgetman

Pretty much these for me. I am happy enough with 15mm at 100m (1.2 MOA)for the 243's and 7mmR, and 12-13mm at 100m for the 223's. For cheap hunting rifles that is good enough for me.

15mm at 100m is basically 1/2MOA.

1/2 moa at 100m and I'm a happy camper

As a 223 varmint shooter the smaller the better, however once the tiny groups and clover leaf targets are put away and you hit the hills the bullshit stops.
Add a less than perfect shooting conditions day ( and most are ) things open up . Half inch groups can easily go an inch and a half plus in a good wind with a 223 and that's inside 200mtrs let alone 300 plus.

The good thing with 223 on rabbits ( unless FMJ ) if you hit them they die, even a leg shot will induce such stock and trauma that they will perish. However a smaller group does tend to help with a better chance of hitting the main body and it's over in an instant.

I used to get hung up on tiny groups, now I get hung up on hits on the target ( rabbits ) and percentage of hits per box of ammo,a miss is money down the drain.

It wasn't that long ago we killed deer at 300 yds sometimes, with 303's that grouped 2 inches at a hundred yards, but the animals in general have evolved, they have developed light armour hides and smaller vital zones, so nowadays, if it is not an anti armour round that puts them in 1/4" and it is beyond 50yds, you're fucked. You can solve this, by having a forward observer and some top cover so you can call it in if it looks a bit difficult.

But what you really want to do, is figure out the vital zone size of the animals you want to shoot at, then work out the maximum range your current ability allows you to consistently hit that zone. Then practise at a little further out at a time, and then one day......... A 1 moa rifle (calibre dependent) will comfortable kill small deer at 400yds if the aim on the vitals is correct in the first place. A quarter moa 300 Weatherby won't kill it (outright and clean) if you can't find the vital zone in the first place.

I shoulda been a school teacher!, cept I hate kids. And people. And traffic. And not being able to find my meds. Did I mention people?

Back to the opening posts original topic.

I have developed a load for a specific purpose (bush-300y red deer) at less than max pressure it shot constantly under half inch at 100m but I had no need of this accuracy in a short range load and the specific projectile I had chosen just works better the faster it is going so I kept stoking it up as fast as I felt was safe.....it still shot very well round 3/4-1 inch at worst but most importantly the projectile had the speed to work effectively.

Same for another rifle in another caliber....the most accurate I have owned...it would shoot 1/4moa 3 shot groups below max but at max still shot half or just under/over, why would I use the 1/4 moa load as a hunting rifle? it was marginal for energy as a 243 so stoke it up I say.

Horses for courses, if shooting for medals you'd be a mug not to use the best accuracy load you can find regardless of velocity.
If shooting for meat/antler/horn you only need acceptable accuracy and velocity/energy that is up to the job and in my case I will trade some accuracy for energy/bullet terminal performance/flatter trajectory/less wind drift because lets face it I cant shoot 1/4MOA off hand or off a tree after having just busted a gut getting up a hill or probably even off my pack prone in some cunty position etc

Horses for courses. My Russian tomato stake/bush rifle with open sights, I am happy if I consistently hit an a4 page at 100 (prone) or same at 50 (offhand).

3 shot groups mean almost nothing. 5 shot groups are slightly better. 10 shot groups start to tell the truth.

My dedicated FTR rifle probably does 1/3 Moa from a machine rest. When you add in wind and 10 shot groups in the real world, 1 to 1.5 Moa on a good day.

The top benchrest rifles in the world do 1/5 or slightly smaller 5 shot groups. So I would treat reports of 1/4 Moa groups out of standard sporter hunting rifles with a bit of healthy suspicion