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I got caught out with neck sizing, loaded up a heap and they wouldn't chamber. Haven't neck sized since.
Saw a guy use another piece of brass to measure the shoulder bump, slipped it over the top zeroed his calipers and proceeded to bump until he got his 2 thou. Obviously it has to be something bigger than you're loading
Usually screw the neck die down until it just touched the shell holder. Should I potentially be backing it off more?
Possibly....depending on the die and your holder vs your chamber you are loading for what can happen is the die if set too low trys to push the neck part of the shoulder down.....with the rest of the case unsupported by the die and the shoulder being tapered it pushes the shoulder/case junction outward and you get tight chambering and extraction.Quote:
Originally Posted by kayneb
Regardless you now need to FL size.
Unless you have an abnormaly large chamber or are loading for Multiple rifles in the same chambering I would set up a Fl die as described above and use it every reloading.
Get rid of the neck die and use a F/L die. Set it according to the instructions in your loading manual ie screw it down on the shell holder, lower the shell holder and turn it another 1/8 turn. Lock it up. Then do some loads and see if you get a different result.
your issue ISNT the neck..or projectile...its more than likely the body of brass itself/shoulder...bump it back more and issue will simply go away...as will tight chambering.....in effect you trying to park a station wagon into a parking space just big enough...try it in mini and its really easy....try it in slightly smaller station wagon and happy medium is found.
partial length resize...sizes MOST of neck and some of case...it bumps case back a little..but not all the way true F/L does...its a bit of both sizing methods...if you dont screw die in enough you can sometimes see ring on neck where its down to...really shows up on 7.62x39mm if using 308 projectiles and sizing button..sort of a mini double shoulder... extreme eg to describe what I mean.
Yea sounds like FL size is the way to go, after watching Mr cortinas vids and hearing your guys thoughts on it seems like a no Brainer. I felt like when I started reloading it seemed like everything I watched and read pointed to neck sizing being the best for accuracy etc..doesn't seem like the case anymore
I did read/watch that after multiple neck sizing you'd have to fl size it to re fit the chamber. Didn't expect it so soon tbh
look at it this way.......supreme accuracy is all well and good sitting on a bench in city range,if round doesnt chamber...oh well carry on
now if you on top of mountain having busted your balls to get there and found trophy of life time and you cant chamber a round...well it matters LOTS AND LOTS now....... swear words would be forgiven.
all things in life are a compromise,you got to find happy medium YOU ARE HAPPY with....at end of day only you know what you need.
plenty of threads on here show the difference between our personal expectations...now me personally,who doesnt shoot past 400 fullstop and seldom past 200...any load around inch is perfectly OK... I go hunting and are happy knowing load will fill freezer.
guys who shoot paper or long range gongs would pull out their hair with my loads.....
hopefully our combined knowledge has helped bump you in right direction...
F/L size batch...it will chamber fine...then tootoo if you still have urge,maybe partial length resize...or neck size and F/L every third load or so...I dont change things which means I can be lazy,dont keep track of how many loads etc a case has been used for....it dont matter to me....within reason.
Quit neck sizing. Full length size every time, a hunting rifle should chamber smoothly and eject every single time without complication. The gains from neck sizing are in your head. Murphy is watching, and one day.......
I would make sure that the chamber is scrupulously clean as well as above suggestions. Had a situation myself with tight chamberings and it was a tiny bit of crud
This might be stating the obvious but When checking for length, Don’t feed them from the magazine, feed it by hand gently. When extracting it, try to not let the ejector push it to the side and rub the sharpie ink off the pill.
Thanks a bunch everyone for the input and advice.
I'll give it a good scrub out anyway.
Still worries me that diagonal gauge in the pill if it's not the rifling. Thinking back, it's definitely not the first time I've seen it..I think it's when I was doing the jam test.
I might seat a shallow round and see if I can replicate it.
The gouge could have come from a magazine lip? Possibly the belted part on the case overlapped with another and gave a bit of a jam situation.
As has been said try full length resizing.
If you still have issues rock along to your local rifle club or sports shop and they may be able to help also. Its often easier to diagnose up close and peronal rather than long distance.
Also has the brass only been fired in this rifle or do you have a few that have been donated by someone? These could be your troublesome rounds.
I neck size with Lee collet dies because supposedly it gives longer case life, and I don’t need to lube (then clean again) the cases. I full length size after the fifth loading. Brass for the lever action and single shot gets full length sized every load.
As has been suggested, toss that neck die out and get some sort of full length die. If you're really serious, get a Wilson FL bushing die and set it so that it gives 2-3 thou of shoulder movement. You'll have to figure out the bushing size- I'd suggest one that gives 2 thou less neck diameter than the loaded diameter. It's not necessarily predictable working backwards on this as brass has variable "spring" in it and may not achieve the diameter labelled on the bushing.
For a big picture on this, have a look at:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLG2kSrD40g
Greetings kayneb,
I think that vietnamcam has cracked it. Generally neck dies are set up to size no more than 80% of the neck to ensure that the shoulder is not bulged by die contact as vietnamcam has written. I assume that your neck die is not a Lee Collet die as I can't see any of the lines on the neck that these leave. Most neck dies don't even touch the shell holder. The Lee is an exception and should be set up as their instructions. After about 3 loadings your cases will need to be full length sized to chamber freely and should be sized just enough to chamber freely and no more or head separations may become a problem. Adjusted this way the FL die may wind up short of reaching the shell holder. A lot of the target and long range shooters have gone to full length sizing each load just enough to chamber using the Redding shell holder sets. They also anneal each load to get consistent neck tension. Another problem with belted cases is a bulge developing just in front of the belt. This is controlled with a special die called appropriately a bulge buster die. I don't see any sign of this on you photo's and neither would I expect to with neck sizing alone. Lastly make sure that your cases are kept trimmed below maximum length as a long case can produce both hard chambering and high pressures. Often erratic accuracy as well. Happy to answer questions.
Regards Grandpamac.
What i see is the lack of cut marks. I think you have a carbon ring that has formed in your chamber throat. When i deliberately extend my projectile fwd i always see little razor like cuts which i dont see in your picks. You are seating way back so i dont think you are hitting the lands at all. I would have that bore inspected / cleaned by a gunsmith
The other thing is that your plastic tip is deformed. That has happened because the seating stem you are using is not the correct profile for the VLDs you are using. If you're using a redding you can just buy the seater stem upgrade for your existing die. Even better get a Forster die.
Yeah, that or more gun!Quote:
Originally Posted by mimms2
Usually you can only neck size a certain number of times before chambering and extraction becomes sticky and then you have to full size, hence why neck sizing has fallen out of favour these days.
Its becoming more common to wind the full die down to touch the shell holder and then back the body of the die off 1/4 to half a turn, depending on the rifles chamber dimensions.
The scuff marks on the projectile and case are probably just from chambering, as with most push feed actions the alignment of the cartridge tends to be a bit crooked until the extractor on the bolt face clips over the rim of the cartridge.
Through all the suggestions I don't see any one mention case length have you ever trimmed the cases a couple of thou too long will
cause tight bolt and high pressure.
When I FLR a belted case, wind the die back 3 or 4 turns, then resize and slowly wind forward and resize again until the bolt closes with slight resistance.
It appears the first pic posted has the projectile seated longer than subsequent pics so probably there is no issue with the shorter ones being too long. Best to do a process of elimination by first stripping the bolt of all load and chambering loaded rounds without using the magazine......find the tight ones and pull the projectiles, then check the empty case for tightness. If it is not tight then it can only be the projectile being too tight in the freebore from fouling, binding on the neck due to carbon or debris or some inconsistency in the projectile being damaged.
If the case is tight it could be many other factors such as trim length too long, case length at shoulder or improper full length sizing as many have already suggested here. You need comparators to check the difference between the tight and not so tight.......hope you get it sorted.....it can be frustrating......!
Is the cut mark on my first pic what you are referring to? Or something different againQuote:
Originally Posted by T.FOYE
Rounds were all single fed. I sorted through all the brass by length and took all the trimmers out and used the brass that havnt needed trimming(anything over 1 thou).
So I've gathered that the main suspect is the Neck sizing stretching the neck and shoulder but I'm concerned what the cut is on the pill in my first photo as some have stated it's definitely not from the lands. I know that it lefr the same cut on the couple of rounds that were tight that I shot right before.
Attachment 178652
Greetings again kayneb,Quote:
Originally Posted by kayneb
I saved the image and zoomed in to get a better look. There are no scrape marks on the forward side of the gouge. This and the fact you had other rounds with this mark leads me to believe that the gouge did not happen in the chamber. My guess would be that the ejector, Plunger type I assume, drove the cartridge into a rough spot inside the action. A careful feel around inside the front of the ejection port may turn something up. A rough edge would do it.
Regards Grandpamac.
Correct, this is what you should do to set the fls die for your individual rifle.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetawa
