Seating die damaging projectiles

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11-04-2016, 06:22 PM
Ryan_Songhurst

Seating die damaging projectiles

Today I decided I might load up some development rounds using 150gr LRABs, im loading them for a 270wsm and im having trouble seating them as the collet is damaging the projectiles, its kind of pushing down onto them and getting stuck, a few of them it even pulled the projectile back out of the case when trying to release. These are compressed loads, is it just that the bit extra effort required to compress is causing the collet to damage them or should I be looking at a different die or other solution? Have no problems with VLDs. Dies are hornady new dimension.

Hope that makes sense and thanks for any advice
11-04-2016, 06:25 PM
dogmatix

Does it happen on a non compressed load?
11-04-2016, 06:33 PM
Ryan_Songhurst

This is a picture of a damaged one, these things are bloody hard to find ( have cleaned @dogmatix rightout of them :thumbsup: ) and I have damaged three which doesnt impress me much, doesnt do it on a load that doesnt compress much, all my loads using them are compressing to a certain degree as they are such long buggers but its the max loads they are doing it on, im wondering if theres a collet that will be easier on them or even a completely new seating die?

http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/...s4wnvvw0o.jpeg
11-04-2016, 06:52 PM
7mmsaum

Seating die damaging projectiles

Have seen it plenty of times

The 270 collet is not quite the same ogive profile as your projectile choice

Yes the compressed loads make it worse.

Some things that lessen the "crush ring" on the projectiles ogive are...

VLD chamfer the inside of your case necks for easier projectile seating

Thoroughly clean then Lube your case necks for a softer seating pressure

Lube projectiles as well for the same reason

Drop a grain of powder out or change to a faster burn rate of powder

Or seat your projectiles out longer if possible

Choose 140 NBT for more powder volume

Seat the projectile very very slowly

Just neck size your fired brass, this increases powder capacity and if you repeatedly tap a powder charged case you will see the powder level drop, then seat the projectile.

If none of those are suitable then smear bedding compound in your collet, and release agent on a projectile

Three quarters seat the projectile in a case and walk away, next day remove the part loaded round from your press.

Your seating collet will now be bedded to 150g LR Accubonds and wont damage them.

I have fired a lot of projectiles that have been damaged in the way you describe and there is no change to bc, no change to accuracy and terminal performance on game is the same.

Ps. I have only ever seen .270 hornady seater stems make this damage, and softening up the final seating pressure is the key to lessen damage
11-04-2016, 06:53 PM
Thedirge

my hornady dies do this to my 223 loads, tho not quite as badly. slightly compressed
11-04-2016, 06:58 PM
Ryan_Songhurst

Thanks @7mmsaum thats all good advice, if I could find a constant supply of the LRABs I would definately bed a collet as you suggested just for seating them..... Actually, I just had a thought as I wrote this, I used to load plenty of LRABs for my 270win, and never had this problem, always used a cheap lee seating die too which I still have, Im going to go check if I can fit a wsm case up that die and try seating with that
11-04-2016, 07:06 PM
Robojaz

Don't know if this is any help, but I got VLD seater stems for my redding seating dies. Bearing in mind these were for 7mm Berger VLDs. Does Hornady do the same thing?
11-04-2016, 07:07 PM
7mmsaum

Seating die damaging projectiles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan_Songhurst

Thanks @7mmsaum thats all good advice, if I could find a constant supply of the LRABs I would definately bed a collet as you suggested just for seating them..... Actually, I just had a thought as I wrote this, I used to load plenty of LRABs for my 270win, and never had this problem, always used a cheap lee seating die too which I still have, Im going to go check if I can fit a wsm case up that die and try seating with that

Wsm case wont fit in 270 win die.
11-04-2016, 07:08 PM
Ryan_Songhurst

Semi-success! Cant use the lee die to seat but took the collet out and allthough its slightly different than the hornady one it works in the hornady die body and seats them nicely, it sits a lot nicer on the LRABs than the hornady one does now that i look at them out of the die bodys. Thanks @7mmsaum I must have just needed a bit of encouragement to use my noggin!
11-04-2016, 07:15 PM
7mmsaum

Seating die damaging projectiles

Now go order a spare hornady .270 seating stem that you can bed to a 150g LRAB ($6 approx)
11-04-2016, 07:19 PM
Ryan_Songhurst

Off to **Gunsmithing Tools**, Reloading Equipment, Books & DVDs - Workshop Innovation as we speak...
11-04-2016, 07:34 PM
zimmer

And if using compressed loads try a loooong drop tube. The powder settles better and deeper into the case. I use a tube around 450mm with a funnel at the top. I tip the powder in on the edge of the funnel and it goes down the tube like water draining out of a bath, ie in a vortex/swirling pattern. @7mmsaum bloody well covered.
11-04-2016, 08:04 PM
Marty Henry

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan_Songhurst

This is a picture of a damaged one, these things are bloody hard to find ( have cleaned @dogmatix rightout of them :thumbsup: ) and I have damaged three which doesnt impress me much, doesnt do it on a load that doesnt compress much, all my loads using them are compressing to a certain degree as they are such long buggers but its the max loads they are doing it on, im wondering if theres a collet that will be easier on them or even a completely new seating die?

http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/...s4wnvvw0o.jpeg

Should buff out easily!
Have had it happen with lapua miras in a 308 (used wrong seating die) shot them and they hit the same place as undamaged ones
11-04-2016, 08:20 PM
Ryan_Songhurst

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Henry

Should buff out easily!
Have had it happen with lapua miras in a 308 (used wrong seating die) shot them and they hit the same place as undamaged ones

But they look ugly! I like my ammunition pretty haha
11-04-2016, 08:23 PM
Ryan_Songhurst

And allthough a few guys have now said they shoot just as well as an undamaged one, being load development rounds im never going to really be able to believe if a good, or bad group was a result of the damaged projectile, really would like all the variables to be minimised as much as possible at load development time!
11-04-2016, 08:27 PM
7mmsaum

Get em perfect and the deer will fall
12-04-2016, 10:55 PM
TeRei

Get a Lyman M die to flare your case mouth.Loading 95gr and 90gr Nosler BT's. No problem. Then Hornady 95gr SST. Collapsed the the neck and shoulder. M die to rescue. All brass had been annealed but those Hornady were so hard to seat with out some help.
12-04-2016, 11:31 PM
300_BLK

Just buy the A-max seating stem. cost about $20
13-04-2016, 07:18 AM
Ryan_Songhurst

Typical, can find amax/VLD/OEM seating collets for 30cal, 6.5cal, 22cal, 7mmcal but nothing for 270
13-04-2016, 07:20 AM
Ryan_Songhurst

Have also discovered I'm only getting this problem using new winchester brass, the Norma is fine, think I need to do a bit more prep to the Winchester stuff
13-04-2016, 08:50 AM
steven

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan_Songhurst

Today I decided I might load up some development rounds using 150gr LRABs, im loading them for a 270wsm and im having trouble seating them as the collet is damaging the projectiles, its kind of pushing down onto them and getting stuck, a few of them it even pulled the projectile back out of the case when trying to release. These are compressed loads, is it just that the bit extra effort required to compress is causing the collet to damage them or should I be looking at a different die or other solution? Have no problems with VLDs. Dies are hornady new dimension.

Hope that makes sense and thanks for any advice

Caught between a rock and a hard place, ie you cannot compress a solid. Compressing is quite dodgy to say the least in terms of pressure spikes IMHO, rather you than me. You could try a different stem as I have different ones for a secant ogive (Hornady a-max) v a tangent one (Lee) die for HBCs/Sierras and Nosslers I load. I'd suggest a denser powder to reduce or remove compression if that is an option? As an example Ive switched to BM2 from 2208 in my AR as my AR likes loads at or just slightly above max and its starting to compress 2208 at that point. Having damaged / stretched a no4 action due to a faulty digital powder scale I dont intend to do that twice.
13-04-2016, 09:20 AM
Ryan_Songhurst

I had thought about trying a load using W760 as it's a ball powder you can get more in the case for less room taken but found with my 270win I got pressure much earlier with it and couldn't get good speeds, also it was really inaccurate with every load I tried. I might do some research into powder choice as with the 2225 I am getting very good speed (3180 with 150s) and no pressure but very compressed loads
13-04-2016, 09:49 AM
Gibo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan_Songhurst

Typical, can find amax/VLD/OEM seating collets for 30cal, 6.5cal, 22cal, 7mmcal but nothing for 270

Try the 7mmm one
13-04-2016, 10:38 AM
7mmsaum

Seating die damaging projectiles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan_Songhurst

I had thought about trying a load using W760 as it's a ball powder you can get more in the case for less room taken but found with my 270win I got pressure much earlier with it and couldn't get good speeds, also it was really inaccurate with every load I tried. I might do some research into powder choice as with the 2225 I am getting very good speed (3180 with 150s) and no pressure but very compressed loads

Drop a few grains and try 2217.

All the info you need is in post # 4
13-04-2016, 11:00 AM
Tahr

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7mmsaum

Drop a few grains and try 2217.

All the info you need is in post # 4

Yes. I quoted in a post on 270wsm somewhere that I use 2214. I actually meant 2217. Works well. Not compressed.
13-04-2016, 02:23 PM
Matt2308

Seating die damaging projectiles

Redding dies.
And if they don't work (they fixed this problem for me), sell the remaining LRAB's to me. ;-)
13-04-2016, 09:04 PM
6x47

Ref: Ryan's concern about recycling projs-

Symmetric deformation to the front end of projectiles should make almost no difference.
Messing with the back end, especially if it's asymmetric, will def not help accuracy.
13-04-2016, 09:31 PM
jakewire

Happens on my 9.3 as well, not as bad but still looks ugly.
Hornady dies, hornady bullets but I think too much powder, I've just bought the long drop thingy.
If that doesn't work I'll go from 2209 to 2208,
13-04-2016, 10:36 PM
300_BLK

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gibo

Try the 7mmm one

What he said!
13-04-2016, 10:57 PM
7mmsaum

Quote:

Originally Posted by 300_BLK

What he said!

If you chose this route be careful as Hornady dies use two different diameter seating stems, old and new dies have different stem diameters.

And be aware that any ammo you make needs to be concentric, hence why my reply in post #4 recommended bedding the seating stem ogive to the projectile.

Then just purchase another standard seating stem for when other projectiles are used.
14-04-2016, 09:21 AM
madjon_

I use a set of Rechargeable clippers to vibrate the case,powder through a funnel,buzz the rim on the clipper teeth,the powder settles up to 3mm(AR2208) 308win