Thread: See separation?

Originally Posted by zimmer

Have these cases been heck turned?

No

Do you really need to anneal the cases, have reloaded for 40 plus years and never annealed any of my brass. I do get split necks after a while but usually get quite a few loads from them before this happens. Some brass is better than others and seems to go forever. Most of the time the first thing to go is the primer pocket enlarges and then I chuck the brass.
I suppose different rifles have different effects on brass too so there are a lot of variables out there.

thar has invented a new sabot wildcat @Mooseman i find federal brass the worst ive tried as far as enlarged primer pockets go

I have a SAUM 180gr running at 3050 fps with up to 12 firings per Norma brass.....no issues yet.

There appear to be heavy vertical scratching on all the necks, and my guess that is replicated inside too...could be huge stress at the point of separation if those necks are as tight as they look. Do not pull your expander up through the re-sized neck......remove it from the stem, punch out the primer, clean the inside with a brush, lube the inside of the neck with something like sizing lube, then install the expander and press down from the top. Even better get a K&M expander to do the job.

The other notable marks are at the top of the neck...quite shiny while the rest of the neck is overly black from gas leakage. Properly sized and annealed necks should have very little powder residue, and in fact if all the planets have aligned you should get witness marks on the neck from the powder representing the number of bolt lugs....! Have you checked the overall chamber length to the top of the neck and the headspace of your loaded round compared to a newly fire-formed case...best to have half to one thou clearance at the shoulders, and 10-20 thou at the top of the neck. That is not critical as long as all the brass is trimmed to the same length.. Also ensure there is no carbon ring formed at that critical junction of the neck and freebore.......?

Regarding annealing....it is difficult to over anneal except if the heat migrates to the base, then you are in trouble.It is not detrimental to cool copper and its alloys so get that heat down past the shoulder base....heat the neck and shoulders very quickly, and dunk it to prevent the heat migration. Lapua brass has very clear and consistent annealing evidence.....replicate that and you are on the right track.

That was an interesting read @Longranger
In your opinion how important is it to anneal brass? And when?

Originally Posted by Tahr

No. I pretty much just do the neck and some shoulder.

I’m guessing it’s to do with your annealing technique of not doing to just below the Shoulder & with a healthy load? There’s a guy on trade me in Wellie who offers annealing, our club Has bought an AMP annealing machine which is magic, I’d be happy to run your brass thru it if you like.

Seen the same thing happen with a friends 300WSM. The headspace was too great i.e. over sized as mentioned by ChrisW and the three times fired cases were loaded with a new different batch of powder which was at least 1.5 grains hotter than the previous lot.

Originally Posted by Danny

That was an interesting read @Longranger
In your opinion how important is it to anneal brass? And when?

It is only important if you want accurate loaded brass. Annealing is essential if you FLS and want consistent headspace and neck perfection in both runout and interference fit on the projectile. I do anneal after every firing, but with a proper annealer. Otherwise just carry on and dispose of the brass when the neck splits, then get new annealed brass......by the way the first question needs addressing...why do the manufacturers anneal brass if they consider it an unnecessary step.....?

tahr....what you might try is annealing with a timer, a flame mounted on a movable stop, and a drill in a jig......spin the brass in the drill at the same place on the flame (preferably the body/shoulder junction and the heat will migrate to the neck) and after the necessary time remove the flame, undo the chuck and drop the case into water.....develop a system so the time, flame placement and drill speed are all consistent, and you will be good to go. I am presuming you know how to correctly headspace your brass after sizing......?

Thanks for the reply to my post @Tahr

Shot with 7mm SAUM with mirage and wind conditions at 400yds....not perfect but getting close. These rounds are annealed everytime, headspace and neck interference closely controlled, and all the usual brass prep attended to each loading.

One difference is the chamber is tight and close attention is needed to brass migration affecting the neck wall thickness....reaming and turning needed sometimes to maintain consistency, and voila.....!

Originally Posted by Mooseman

Do you really need to anneal the cases, have reloaded for 40 plus years and never annealed any of my brass. I do get split necks after a while but usually get quite a few loads from them before this happens. Some brass is better than others and seems to go forever. Most of the time the first thing to go is the primer pocket enlarges and then I chuck the brass.
I suppose different rifles have different effects on brass too so there are a lot of variables out there.

Even when you resize to a different calibre?

I don't annealed when I'm resizing to a different caliber mind you I'm only after hunting accuracy and loads are well within that

Originally Posted by Longranger

It is only important if you want accurate loaded brass. Annealing is essential if you FLS and want consistent headspace and neck perfection in both runout and interference fit on the projectile. I do anneal after every firing, but with a proper annealer. Otherwise just carry on and dispose of the brass when the neck splits, then get new annealed brass......by the way the first question needs addressing...why do the manufacturers anneal brass if they consider it an unnecessary step.....?

tahr....what you might try is annealing with a timer, a flame mounted on a movable stop, and a drill in a jig......spin the brass in the drill at the same place on the flame (preferably the body/shoulder junction and the heat will migrate to the neck) and after the necessary time remove the flame, undo the chuck and drop the case into water.....develop a system so the time, flame placement and drill speed are all consistent, and you will be good to go. I am presuming you know how to correctly headspace your brass after sizing......?

Excellent post, although it's not necessary to drop the case into water once annealed as it doesn't achieving anything of value unless you like drying out wet cases.

Originally Posted by 10-Ring

Excellent post, although it's not necessary to drop the case into water once annealed as it doesn't achieving anything of value unless you like drying out wet cases.

Well its all about mitigating risk.....I do that so the primers don't explode prematurely in my hand.....just kidding....!

Originally Posted by Longranger

It is only important if you want accurate loaded brass. Annealing is essential if you FLS and want consistent headspace and neck perfection in both runout and interference fit on the projectile. I do anneal after every firing, but with a proper annealer. Otherwise just carry on and dispose of the brass when the neck splits, then get new annealed brass......by the way the first question needs addressing...why do the manufacturers anneal brass if they consider it an unnecessary step.....?

tahr....what you might try is annealing with a timer, a flame mounted on a movable stop, and a drill in a jig......spin the brass in the drill at the same place on the flame (preferably the body/shoulder junction and the heat will migrate to the neck) and after the necessary time remove the flame, undo the chuck and drop the case into water.....develop a system so the time, flame placement and drill speed are all consistent, and you will be good to go. I am presuming you know how to correctly headspace your brass after sizing......?

Thanks for this. The head space thing is mystery to me -loaded thousands of rounds and never had a problem until this rifle so never had to worry about it.