Thread: Sighting in a rifle on a short range

The Sharpshooter which was written by the Grants and published in the 70s had an article on using ballistics to
sight in your rifle.
The formula used allowed you to calculate your point of impact at say 25 yards for your intended range.
Also think Philip Holden wrote about checking his zero at something like 26 yards which stacked up for the range he shot at.
Does save a power of walking and peering through scopes/binoculars to see where your bullet went.
Mind you I think a deer at 200m is a long way away.

Its pretty bloody easy to get a bullet inside a 15mm dot at 25 metres, actually pretty bloody easy to put it exactly in the centre! You can see the hole with your naked eyes. Then it shouldn't be very far left or right [thats windage] If you are 6mm [1/4"] out at 25, it should only be close enough to 25mm [1"] out at 100, in theory. Dont overthink it, its all very simple, punch a hole exactly in the centre of a very small dot at 25 metres, verify it at 100 when you have the opportunity and you will know your elevation and wether you need to change it up or down. And then if you want to be absolutely sure should something go wrong, do as some of the guys have said and go back to 25 after you have your elevation sorted and check exactly where that one bullet prints at 25, then remember it in case shit happens.

Originally Posted by Husky1600

Its pretty bloody easy to get a bullet inside a 15mm dot at 25 metres, actually pretty bloody easy to put it exactly in the centre! You can see the hole with your naked eyes. Then it shouldn't be very far left or right [thats windage] If you are 6mm [1/4"] out at 25, it should only be close enough to 25mm [1"] out at 100, in theory. Dont overthink it, its all very simple, punch a hole exactly in the centre of a very small dot at 25 metres, verify it at 100 when you have the opportunity and you will know your elevation and wether you need to change it up or down. And then if you want to be absolutely sure should something go wrong, do as some of the guys have said and go back to 25 after you have your elevation sorted and check exactly where that one bullet prints at 25, then remember it in case shit happens.

Thanks @Husky1600
You have got the pennies to finally tumble in my locked head !!!!!
Its a bit like electrics to me - I get tied up in the theory and techs and cant see the trees for the forest so to speak

I know bush hobbits who put a paper cup (from thier morning latte) up across a skid site against pile of old slash and fire a shot into it and call rifle good to go...... mind you though they NEVER shoot past 50 yards........interestingly that very same bush hobbit came out for wander with me and tipped over hind at 275yards without too much fuss. not ideal way to do things but it does have merit.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

I know bush hobbits who put a paper cup (from thier morning latte) up across a skid site against pile of old slash and fire a shot into it and call rifle good to go...... mind you though they NEVER shoot past 50 yards........interestingly that very same bush hobbit came out for wander with me and tipped over hind at 275yards without too much fuss. not ideal way to do things but it does have merit.

That was us to a Tee
Apart from the Latte cup was a Winfield Red 25 packet
But we were bush bashers

I was just trying to remember when I have actually shot open country and I have never shot open country with a scoped rifle - never !!

Shot 1000's goats with open sights out to 2-300
Scopes have been my downfall to be honest - exaggerate my shake and make me loose confidence b4 I "yank" the trigger

Short range sight in seems to have become a lost art since the days of Matt and Bruce Grant. The cigarette packet at the end of the skid isn't so PC nowadays. The sharpshooter was the bible of nz hunting marksmanship.

Good marksmanship for hunting is 80% preparation and 20% performance on the day. Put in your time on paper at the range and hunting will take care of itself.

Ok the best way is to shoot at 200 or 300 till you know where you are hitting (good wine dage and all) then shoot carefully at 25 and RECORD where it hits.

A ballistic app like JBM (online) will give good info without too much tech input or ask here and someone will punch it in quick and good for you.

Numbers you can guess approximately:
Muzzle velocity
Ballistic coefficient
Take the manufacturer's claims and subtract 20fps for every inch less than 24" will be fine.

NUMBERS YOU MUST HAVE SPOT ON:
Centre of barrel to center of scope (well to the nearest 5mm anyway)
A small group. Ideally within 1cm centre to centre at 25m. And fire groups of at least 3.
The exact distance for your short range. The bullet is rising quickly and if its 40m not 25 you can end up way out. Also your sights won't adjust what you expect. Either use a rangefinder or pace out very carefully. For me 50m is 55 paces.

Finally, the main difficulty shooting at 200m and 300m is estimating the range. Most people can't judge better than +/- 50m without a laser, which leads to huge errors in bullet impact.

Originally Posted by Sarvo

I hear what you are saying and others on here about shooting to "one’s own" capability
You see - on animals I have no problem
I would never shoot at a moving animal or one on the edge of bush/scrub over 100m - only one that was in open terrain and more than likely with someone as back up over 200m

So - not trying to discredit your comments above - but you say ""I use as much bracing or steadys that I can like proper rests""
That isn’t going to be the case out in the wilds shooting at animals – if you get my point. When sighting in you are trying to line the scope up with the barrel so where you point it is where it goes. By taking as much "operator error" out of the equation, you ensure that where the crosshair is, the barrel is pointing at the same point. For practising and improving shooting, then I wholeheartedly agree that you should practise the positions that you will be using in the field. Sighting in I want my rifle as close to perfect as I can get it, but for shooting targets, plinking and technique, I shoot as though I am in the field.

As I said above I have shoot rifle & gun for 55 years now If you are confident at making the shot then you should be easily capable of sighting a rifle in. But if you are not comfortable of hitting targets at that range, you should not be taking shots at animals at the same. I only mentioned that because you stated "I just CANNOT shoot/sight a rifle in past 60m anymore" in your post on page 2. This lead me to think you were saying you cannot hit targets at that range. Sighting in is exxentially pointing the barrel (POI) and the cross in the scope at the same place.
I have never been good at target shooting apart from Trap (shotgun) competitionsMate, I cannot hit the barn from the inside with a shotgun....but I am confident with rifles and hit rabbits running with my 22.

However - I would have shot in excess of 5000 animals in my time and apart from a timeframe with a Mini14 that had the old Wichita base system that was a complete arse - I rarely a wounded animal.

What I still do not understand (call me stupid or just call me dumb) but if I can hit a 20c piece consistently at say 40m (my max comfort distance for sighting in) why should that shot be way off out at 150 - 200 Not stupid at all. It shouldn't be way off. If you can keep the group to an inch at 40 metres, then at 200 the group size should be about 5 to 6 inches which is an adequate for a confident kill shot at that range. Even on smaller animals like goats
If I get the formula for rise correct at 40m (say 1.5" low of bull) it should be a killable shot out to 200m ???

It’s been an interesting read on this thread and I will be trying a few options mentioned that I can do myself here in my limited terrain.

Best method I saw was a Clock target. If you aim to be about an inch high at 100 metres and abut 0 at 200 or even 175 metres, then you picture the 10" clock on the anmal kill zone. If you aim at the point halfway between centre and the 12 the POI will rise from just above centre at the muzzle to about an inch below the 12 at peak (around 100m drop down to the aiming point at 175m and will be about the centre of the clock by 220m dropping to halfway to the bottom by around the 250m. This allows for a 5 inch group at 250m and still theoretically still have all the group inside the 10" clock face. This 10" circle is also about the size of a kill zone on a deer.

And with the reference to Stupid. I only have one point to make. The ONLY stupid question there can be is the one that was not asked. You strike me as a smart individual who is seeking to work out something they cannot quite get their head around and I will never criticise anyone for looking for answers. None of us will ever have all the answers, and the best way to find out something is to ask someone who has the answer to your question. I can only hope I was able to help.

Originally Posted by Bagheera

Short range sight in seems to have become a lost art since the days of Matt and Bruce Grant. The cigarette packet at the end of the skid isn't so PC nowadays. The sharpshooter was the bible of nz hunting marksmanship.

Good marksmanship for hunting is 80% preparation and 20% performance on the day. Put in your time on paper at the range and hunting will take care of itself.

Ok the best way is to shoot at 200 or 300 till you know where you are hitting (good wine dage and all) then shoot carefully at 25 and RECORD where it hits.

A ballistic app like JBM (online) will give good info without too much tech input or ask here and someone will punch it in quick and good for you.

Numbers you can guess approximately:
Muzzle velocity
Ballistic coefficient
Take the manufacturer's claims and subtract 20fps for every inch less than 24" will be fine.

NUMBERS YOU MUST HAVE SPOT ON:
Centre of barrel to center of scope (well to the nearest 5mm anyway)
A small group. Ideally within 1cm centre to centre at 25m. And fire groups of at least 3.
The exact distance for your short range. The bullet is rising quickly and if its 40m not 25 you can end up way out. Also your sights won't adjust what you expect. Either use a rangefinder or pace out very carefully. For me 50m is 55 paces.

Finally, the main difficulty shooting at 200m and 300m is estimating the range. Most people can't judge better than +/- 50m without a laser, which leads to huge errors in bullet impact.

Well said.

looked up my OLD OLD OLD manual last night...published 4 years before I was born so the info and theory was older than that..published in 1968 by mountain safety council..... the good old rule of three table.....when I look down figures for ALL the cartridges listed if you sighted in 1.5" high at 50 yards you will be pretty darn close to 3" high at hundred for them all the variation between cartridges and projectile weights at 50 yards is very little indeed.

From my experience sighting in scopes all the time, 1.5 inches high at 50m will put you too high at 100 metres - 4 inches or more.

Put the point of impact just under at 25 metres, half an inch is good - that would put you around one inch high at 50 and around three inches high at 100 metres. This is good for most high powered rifles with a scope, .308 - .270 etc.


Most of my hunting ends up with off hand shots. My practicing involves shooting off hand.

hmmmmm
they do say a picture is worth a thousand words....

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

hmmmmmAttachment 91743
they do say a picture is worth a thousand words....

As a 308 fan I have to say that that one is very slow even for a 308

The tables often disagree with me but I have found my arrangement above to be actually correct. The problem though at short range sight ins is not so much the elevation, because three inches high or spot on at 100 metres, both are workable, but the windage. Three inches left at 100 metres is unacceptable to me.

poked a bit more powder in for you Vietnamcam...she boots a bit more and case life is reduced,getting a bit sticky on bolt lift too....

we are in agreement ...sort of...whats half an inch????? interesting if you look at both of them the 25-27 yard is crossing point for projectile on upward path.... yip faster round is smack on an inch at 50 yards...thanks for pointing that out C.H. shall I do one for the big fatty 180s too for shits n giggles????