Thread: So what do I use for pressure signs then

This is a follow up to this thread https://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co....-primer-47618/
The rifle was sent by the importer to Arthur clealand
Who among other things said that the ring was just the rifle breaking in
This was @gundocs suggestion Aswell so all good Geuss I’ll just deal with it till it inproves
Its fired 200 rounds now so should be comeing right soon

Anyway so I can discount the ring as a pressure sign these are not ejector marks
I can probably also discount a slightly tight bolt lift as it’s rubbing on the cases

I will probably still be able to spot ejector marks when they are there as they will be closer to the edge of the cases
And Obviously primer cratering

Im gonna start pushing the pressure up abit so i need to have a good way of spotting pressure while disregarding the little quirks of the rifle
It’s only pushing a 123gn at 2718 atm (mild load) but im hopefully going to get it closer to 3000

Cheers
Darryn

Wingman shared this link... https://www.primalrights.com/library...nding-pressure well worth the read.

In this thread... https://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co....lopment-44380/

Excellent article. Thanks LBD for bringing Wingman's reference back up.

A flat bolt face is a good start

I never saw a single case come out of certain forum members rifles that did not have an ejector mark. You counted the firings off the ejector marks.

Sticky bolt lift tells you your chamber is expanding. This is obviously extremely bad because working the steel will work harden it and introduce defects, make it brittle and give the possibility of a future failure.

Some brass is just soft and flows into the ejector space without any sticky bolt lift, but not Lapua. Hornady used to be very variable hardness in my experience.

Brass flowing like liquid is higher pressure than you want, or softer brass than you want. Any deformation in the action (sticky bolt lift) is 100% bad every time unless a gunsmith tells you your chamber/action is off spec, which is still bad.

Creedmore and X47 with the small rifle primer and very solid/hard case base allow higher pressure without the usual case base deformation pressure signs. It does not mean the pressure is not there. You need to use a hard primer to go with the tough case base or it will flow in around the firing pin. A custom firing pin fitted to your bolt will also prevent this. All you are doing is hiding pressure under the carpet, but at the end of the day if the action is not deforming you don't really have a problem. Pressure is what makes the pill fly.

If your chamber is expanding it will shrink back to its original dimensions and the case will not, jamming in the chamber. You probably new all this but it did me no harm to job the memory.

This is a very cool article
https://www.primalrights.com/library...nding-pressure

Pressure does not matter. Deformation matters and pressure, or an off spec action will cause deformation. If there is no deformation you do not have a problem.

Originally Posted by rambo-6mmrem

This is a follow up to this thread https://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co....-primer-47618/
The rifle was sent by the importer to Arthur clealand
Who among other things said that the ring was just the rifle breaking in
This was @gundocs suggestion Aswell so all good Geuss I’ll just deal with it till it inproves
Its fired 200 rounds now so should be comeing right soon

Anyway so I can discount the ring as a pressure sign these are not ejector marks
I can probably also discount a slightly tight bolt lift as it’s rubbing on the cases

I will probably still be able to spot ejector marks when they are there as they will be closer to the edge of the cases
And Obviously primer cratering

Im gonna start pushing the pressure up abit so i need to have a good way of spotting pressure while disregarding the little quirks of the rifle
It’s only pushing a 123gn at 2718 atm (mild load) but im hopefully going to get it closer to 3000

Cheers
Darryn

Just work your load up to get the most accurate load once your group starts to open up thats the place to stop if you need more velocity go to the next bigger case
running cartridges at max loads stuffs cases in short order and burns out the throat,
Rifles rarely shoot their best a max pressure usually 1.5 - 2.0 grains below max is most accurate.

Originally Posted by shooternz

Just work your load up to get the most accurate load once your group starts to open up thats the place to stop if you need more velocity go to the next bigger case
running cartridges at max loads stuffs cases in short order and burns out the throat,
Rifles rarely shoot their best a max pressure usually 1.5 - 2.0 grains below max is most accurate.

Yeah...

Originally Posted by Cordite

Yeah...

Attachment 106827

A sloppy bomb maker, sloppy reloaders wear a bolt in their head

@shooternz and @coredite
I don’t really agree
Loading hot is fine and not only fine but safe as long as you’re not a fucken Idiot
Im working really slow and would spot any issues well before i got into and danger
And when you spot the 1st signs of issues (pressure) you back the load off a little

I have been reloading since 15 and am now in my late 20’s
I am still a newbe to some but I’ve got a Reasonable amount of loading experience
So I don’t think you need to be to worried about me

Im a responseable reloader which is why I posted this as the rifle is marking the brass even with factory ammo
Not pressure signs but could somewhat mask pressure signs depending what ones poped up 1st so I wanted to see what to look for that wouldn’t be masked by the existing Case damage (Caused by the Rifle not pressure)

I would say 70% or more of the rifles ive loaded for have had a Accuracy node at or above maximum book charge
(If Pressure allows Obviously)

Have just finished working up a load for my mates abolt 260 which is 3gn over the maximum book load
With no signs of pressure not even slight signs went to went to 4 gn over(working in .3gn jumps)
Accurate as hell But had a light ejector swipe nothing to worry about it was that light but just to be safe i knocked it back a gn

Cheers
Darryn

Left min load
Right max
No worries that I can see
Except for the primer Crater but this rifle just dose that with anyload
And it doesn’t change from min to max
Although due to photo angle the max charge looks worse but it’s not

I also have seemed to fix the problem with the bolt face
I gave the bolt face a very light polish and its no longer binding on the brass

So a good range trip alround
Found a load that will give me good accuracy and
Decent speed


I haven’t cronyed yet as I don’t target shoot over my crony
But it 1gn hotter than the load giving 2718 so should be 2800 or so

Originally Posted by shooternz

Just work your load up to get the most accurate load once your group starts to open up thats the place to stop if you need more velocity go to the next bigger case
running cartridges at max loads stuffs cases in short order and burns out the throat,
Rifles rarely shoot their best a max pressure usually 1.5 - 2.0 grains below max is most accurate.

Max load is what the book says and some rifles will be ready to pop at or a little above the book starting load. I don't think reading pressure signs is optional. I'm not arguing for or against hot loads, I am just saying you are always in the dark and everyone needs to keep an eye on these things.

Brass strain makes a pretty decent pressure gauge. This is a metallurgical question. Pressure creates stress, which leads to strain. You should see strain in the brass at predictable pressures. As you say, you will wreck your brass at max loadings.

I am not convinced anyone knows what "max" is before they start the process.

now what was it Alanis Morriset said???? something about good advice????
anytime you CHOOSE to load hot/above book max you are taking a gamble/calculated risk
IF you KNOW your rifle from many years of loading for it or many different loads through it you can be a bit more calculating as to what is going to be OK...but if its a new rifle all bets are off,give me a mild accurate load over a fast one thats spraying shots anyday.... another really big danger is working up a hot load in cold conditions,fire that same load on a say 30 degree day and you are likely to blow up rifle and yourself.
you have asked what to use for pressure signs......do you actually want anyone to answer that or just confirm what you already think???

Which is why I always prefer to develop on hot days micky Worst case scenario
I posted on here because I wanted Genuine advice on pressure signs due to my rifle playing games and given fulse signs
I posted here because im not gungho and I wanna be as safe as possible while loading my rifle to its full potential
Unlike some who like to use loading to actually handicap there guns I use loading for Increased performance in both accuracy as you see above and Ballistics in the same load preferably as you can see from above I don’t settle for shit accuracy just coz it’s going fast
Id rather Compromise ballistics rather than accuracy but both in the same package that’s what loading is about for me
We will agree to disagree which is fine but I can’t quite understand why people that load for accuracy and accuracy only are Commenting on a pressure sign thread when they have most likely never delt with high pressure loads

I don’t want to argue so you may aswell not not bother replying as this will be my last post on this thread
Enjoy your evening ��

my poohseventy sits 2-3grns ABOVE book max on all loads WITHOUT pressure signs,on a normal day...on a hot day they start to appear. those loads would blow up my mates rifle as it shows pressure signs 3-4 below max.
no one is argueing and bush hobbits dont give a shite about ballistics LOL. sub 200 yards it doesnt matter.
enjoy your day.

no one is argueing and bush hobbits dont give a shite about ballistics LOL. sub 200 yards it doesnt matter.
enjoy your day.[/QUOTE]
I agree with you MD, I get people asking what the BC is for my cast bullets that are going to be shot at 50 metres at 1050fps a BC of .700
is still going to drop 9 to 12 inches at 100 metres the same as a BC of .200
The velocity is just too low to take advantage of the high BC.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

now what was it Alanis Morriset said???? something about good advice????
anytime you CHOOSE to load hot/above book max you are taking a gamble/calculated risk
IF you KNOW your rifle from many years of loading for it or many different loads through it you can be a bit more calculating as to what is going to be OK...but if its a new rifle all bets are off,give me a mild accurate load over a fast one thats spraying shots anyday.... another really big danger is working up a hot load in cold conditions,fire that same load on a say 30 degree day and you are likely to blow up rifle and yourself.
you have asked what to use for pressure signs......do you actually want anyone to answer that or just confirm what you already think???

You are sort of assuming in each post hot loads shoot badly. All the rifles I have handloaded for tightened up towards their maximum. I paid for one to be loaded, I got a 22-250 load which was accurate and no faster than a .243, afterwards I did it myself and got the same accuracy at a much higher velocity. I abandoned the load and rifle because my Hornady mixed lot brass would be fine, except one packet of 20 cases in 200 would jam be bolt.

I think the question still stands and while Rambo is going over, what is the answer to his question. Assume my point, that pressure can be made early and the book means squat?

I'm dead curious having spent the day firing factory ammo and as I am in the habit, I checked the cases. My factory ammo, Winchester powerpoint 175g 7mm Rem Mag had ejector marks and my Sellior and Belliot .243 had completely flattened primers.