Some advice sought for 30-06 loads.

There are differences in ogive shape between secant (SST) and conventional (sierra) bullets.
I am loading 180 SGK's and testing 165 sst's as well.
My experience so far is that the sst like to be at least touching or lightly jammed to get good groups.
My questions relate to others experiences indicate little or no jump in 30-06 loads, or various degrees of jamming, and whether there are variations of pressure that affect grouping consistency with the two different ogive shapes.
The barrel I am using has a short throat, with bolt face to lands 2.571". Norma brass.
Thanks for input in advance.

In addition, I am finding ogive position on SST's can vary front or back by 20+ thou". Bit of a worry.

PERSONALLY I dont worry about it.my poohseventy is so long throated its impracticle to get say a 130grn ballistic tip anywhere near rifling so I simply load to magazine length for all my loads,even with huge big 170grn round nose pills it wont hit rifling but I suspect its pretty close as they shoot really sweat wee groups.
if you set up your dies for one of the projectiles you are going to use the differences in ogive will be cancelled out as die will be pushing projectile from a certain width of projectile (hope that makes sence,the ring you see on soft projectiles from die)so they will/should all be same distance from touching rifling even if some longer than others.
you rifle has short throat so you will have to work with that...set any projectile distance you want then use that dummy round to set dies each time no matter what projectile you loading and you wont be far wrong by my calculations due to the "ring thing" mentioned above.

I generally use a dummy round to get overall length and usually set the projectile in about a mill or two more and try them out . Tikkas limit you to the mag length as do other box mag rifles.
As Micky Duck said once your die is set for seating and is where you want it all projectiles should be OK, longer projectiles will seat deeper in the case.
The only thing I did notice the other day was I seated the 200gr ELD X using the same setting as for the 180 gr Noslar BT and when I tried them out they were hard to chamber. I think the shape or Ogive was different to the Noslar and the projectile was engaging the lands. The next lot I loaded up I seated them in about 1.5 mm more and they fit fine now. ( still need to check for accuracy but should be ok for a hunting round)

Fair enough. I think the lead / rifling junction on mine is actually tapered rifling. With sst's I get maybe one flyer out to an moa from the group sometimes and I suspect it is an ogive variance issue. So I am wondering whether to jam in further, but worried about a "long one" actually creating a more severe pressure spike. The issue seems much less apparent with sierras; but with a taper into the full lands, some jam is probably a good idea with sierras. Maybe not so good with less consistent bullet shapes.

Had the same problem with my 7x57 was try to figure out why the COL was all over the shop with each cartridge.
Turned out the box of pills where all different sizes and which put the Ogive all over the shop:( very frustrating as I had to pull 20 odd before I nutted it out. There only fire form rounds but still would have expected better:(
Just put it down to lesson learned and stored:)

Not the most accurate method but works for me. I first measure the length from bolt face to muzzle on a closed action with a cleaning rod. Then I pop a projectile down the chamber until it sits just on the lands and re-measure from tip of projectile to muzzle. The difference between the two measurements is my max OAL. I can find the ogive by using one of those comparator nuts from Sinclairs.

I never had much success with SSTs due to having to have a large jump due to a long throat and magazine length restrictions.

Had a lot of success with 165 HPBT Gamekings in the 30-06.

Yet to see how the 200gr ELDXs go.

Use the same method.

Been down those tracks, then to the hornady tool which is more precise, but now use carbon black on assembled blanks and gradually seat bullet deeper until rifling marks barely show. What I found with sst's is that while the bullet lengths are very consistent to within a couple of thou", the ogive position is not. With sierra lead tips, the bullet length can vary considerably, but the ogive position relative to the base of the bullet is very constant so a properly shaped seating cone is important to use (not just pressing on the bullet tip)
Therefore I am shying away from sst's and moving more towards conventional ogive shaped sierras with constant ogive positions relative to the base of the bullet. I know this works well with SGK 180's and will test their 165's soon. Giving up on secant ogive sst's in the meantime when looking for consistent sub moa groups.

I use 167 grain Lapua Scenars for my .30-06 long-range rifle, seating the projectile so the rear edge of the bearing surface is level with the bottom of the neck. I have throated the leed so the bullet engages the rifling with 1mm of the bearing suface still in the neck. I am running my loads fairly warm (2950 fps) with AR2213SC in a 26" barrel and the long leed helps keep pressures down. Accuracy is a consistent 0.5MOA and an SD of 15 fps. Case life is excellent.

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Originally Posted by gundoc

I use 167 grain Lapua Scenars for my .30-06 long-range rifle, seating the projectile so the rear edge of the bearing surface is level with the bottom of the neck. I have throated the leed so the bullet engages the rifling with 1mm of the bearing suface still in the neck. I am running my loads fairly warm (2950 fps) with AR2213SC in a 26" barrel and the long leed helps keep pressures down. Accuracy is a consistent 0.5MOA and an SD of 15 fps. Case life is excellent.

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Wish I could reload like that!:thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by gundoc

I use 167 grain Lapua Scenars for my .30-06 long-range rifle, seating the projectile so the rear edge of the bearing surface is level with the bottom of the neck. I have throated the leed so the bullet engages the rifling with 1mm of the bearing suface still in the neck. I am running my loads fairly warm (2950 fps) with AR2213SC in a 26" barrel and the long leed helps keep pressures down. Accuracy is a consistent 0.5MOA and an SD of 15 fps. Case life is excellent.

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@gundoc. Are you saying a 1mm engagement of the ogive / shank junction seated into the lands?

Hello Woody, he's telling you that he is jumping that bullet, 1mm less than the length of the cartridge case neck.

Ok. I wasn't sure. That's a looong jump. Thanks @JWB and @gundoc. The bbl I'm playing around with has a very short lead. For example a coal with SGK 165 or 180 touching lands is only 3.250". Quite different from what I've been used to. The bolt face to lands distance is 2.57" but the lands seem to be tapered. (It's a new bbl.) I can seat the bullets further in (about 30thou' with clear contact using carbon on the ogive / shank with no extraction problems. A firm to almost tight jam using bolt camming allows coal length to be increased about 40thou from "just touching"(hand pressure with Hornady tool) the start of the lands. Makes things interesting.
Is there 5-600 yard shooting at Te Puke on Saturday? if calm wind I might get there.

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Originally Posted by Woody

Ok. I wasn't sure. That's a looong jump. Thanks @JWB and @gundoc. The bbl I'm playing around with has a very short lead. For example a coal with SGK 165 or 180 touching lands is only 3.250". Quite different from what I've been used to. The bolt face to lands distance is 2.57" but the lands seem to be tapered. (It's a new bbl.) I can seat the bullets further in (about 30thou' with clear contact using carbon on the ogive / shank with no extraction problems. A firm to almost tight jam using bolt camming allows coal length to be increased about 40thou from "just touching"(hand pressure with Hornady tool) the start of the lands. Makes things interesting.
Is there 5-600 yard shooting at Te Puke on Saturday? if calm wind I might get there.

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If there is @Woody I’d be keen to come along as I was meant to last time.


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OK @Danny

Well, I seated the 165 sst's 5 thou further into the lands. No felt resistance closing the bolt. Group at 200m under 1moa with no flyers . No great pressure increase showing on primers. Load quite mild at 2750 fps with 57.1 gn 4350/ cci200 primers Norma brass. Might try for next node up next time. The identical load but with 165 SGk's same seating depth was slightly larger group and about 20fps less with great velocity variance so will try seating the SGk's a little further into the lands as well next time. All good.

could you unload them?

Yes, without any problem. The rifling lands have a gradual taper before full dimension so the contact is still very light. This is in my barrel and might not be the case in others.

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Originally Posted by Woody

Well, I seated the 165 sst's 5 thou further into the lands. No felt resistance closing the bolt. Group at 200m under 1moa with no flyers . No great pressure increase showing on primers. Load quite mild at 2750 fps with 57.1 gn 4350/ cci200 primers Norma brass. Might try for next node up next time. The identical load but with 165 SGk's same seating depth was slightly larger group and about 20fps less with great velocity variance so will try seating the SGk's a little further into the lands as well next time. All good.

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I started with 4350 but found the pressures too high for the velocity I was looking for and got a couple of loose primers. I switched to the slower ADI2213SC and am delighted with the results, but it needs a fairly long barrel to get an efficient burn (at least 24"). The accuracy and consistency of 2213SC is much better than 4350 in my rifle. I also use a .30/06 Husqvarna for hunting but just use factory 150 grain Federal for good results. I pick up cases I see but am not stressed about searching for them given the low number of shots fired when hunting. I do pick up all my Norma cases for my long range rifle which is used in much more controlled conditions.

Yes. In my older S&L M65dl which has a long lead my best powder was Re22 with AR2213sc a close second. This new rifle seems to like 2209 and 4350 but I've yet to try 2213 in it (180gn SGK's). The barrel is 56mm, so v close to 24" and 10" twist. The COAL's for my older rifle are all too long to fit this new one so I'm reworking my loads. could never get great consistency with 165's in the old rifle, but did get 1 moa with 165SGK's using 59 gn 2209. However, in the new rifle I will have to work up to that very carefully. I'm thinking I am likely to get one more node above 2750 when I can afford more powder and bullets.

165sst. 200m. 2760fps.
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