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Hi all. Did some reloading today and one of my rounds came out very crooked, shit load of run-out. Don't know what happened, think I might of been too impatient seating that one and stuffed up my process? Anyway, is there a way to straighten the round without pulling and reseating the bullets?
Thanks
Photo please!
Mark the projectile with a Sharpie around the top of the neck of the case. But it in your kinetic bullet puller and give it a few taps so you can see that it’s come out a hundred thou or so (more the better).
Then run it back through your seating die.
Depends whether the neck has radial runout....if not it will never straighten. In that case you will need to re-size it and check it again....if that doesn't work the only solution is fire-forming and starting again.
However if the neck has no runout and the projectile is offset in the neck it is possible in many ways to bring it back into line without detrimentally affecting the performance. Hornady make a runout gauge specifically for that purpose or you can grip the bullet in a lathe jaw and spin the round with a DTI on the case just above the extractor groove and gradually force it into line...whatever works is OK
A serious guy I shoot F-Open with has a fancy tool for doing just want you want. Makes him feel better but he doesn't win any more than other guys not using one.
Greetings All,
John Barsness, one of my favourite handloading writers, had an article in Handloader mag recently. He looked at reasons for projectile run out and identified the expander ball as a significant culprit. He got better results by sizing the case with the expander ball removed and then expanding the neck by running the expander ball into the case just through the neck and back out again. Obviously you need to remove the spent primer first which I do with a Lee punch and base set anyway. The reason given is that only part of the rim is supported when pulling the case out of the die but the whole head is when pushing it in. Also make sure that you chamfer the inside of the neck before loading including new brass.
Regards Grandpamac.
I have been doing that for a very long timeQuote:
Originally Posted by grandpamac
The taper on Redding expanders is the wrong way around to be pulled back through a neck first
I ALWAYS use the expander as a seperate operation pushing it down through the neck first
That minimises runout to almost zero
And don’t forget when measuring runout it’s not the sum total measured, halve it as your wanting to know the offset from centre
Very very few remember that……..and it’s often taught incorrectly
I use a lee collet mandrel neck sizer after normal resizing/shoulder bump.
John mentioned the Lee collet neck dies and the old Lee Loader as producing very straight ammunition. Light loads for my .303 rifles are neck sized with a Lee Loader and then have the expander ball run in and out. They work well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Woody
GPM.
I do get very straight ammo using the Lee Loaders but this time I used my Lee collet die and Hornady inline seating die and Lee neck flaring die. I do have a 'M' die but I find it opens the neck up too much for jacket and .312 cast bullets, good for .314 bullets for 303Quote:
Originally Posted by grandpamac
Ground the primer pin off, the Lee collect neck die, means I can pour powder out, resize, straighten the neck without having to deprime the brass. Always remove primers with a Lee all caliber deprimer anyway - easier.
These photos really don't do it much justice but when the round came out the die it was quite noticeable without needing to roll it on a flat surface
Attachment 201266
Attachment 201268
Its only lead.....give it a tweak with the plam of your hand....wont take much preasure.
Then shoot as a warmup round.
Tried that, no luckQuote:
Originally Posted by veitnamcam
I have the hornady concentricity set up, seldom use it as what ever I'm doing, the run out is 1 to 2 thou out.
Know a guy that simply drills an appropriate size hole in his bench top, puts the project in and moves the case to straighten the whole lot up. Get tons of leverage that way, then he has a we home made jig to test his concentricity.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...0db9078aaf.jpg
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When seating, seat it half way then retract the case, turn it 180deg and run it to full depth. Seems to fix most of this issue.
Another cause is a mismatch between the tip of the bullet and the profile of the seating stem - usually this is the issue with the VLD long pointy bullets not being seated straight as the point of the bullet hits a flat spot in the seating stem so doesn't self align. The opposite can happen with the blunt tip profile on the lead bullets...
If it were me i wouldn't shoot that as is. I reckon pull it, and harvest the components. Either way thats gonna be a flier most likely
But save save that case. I would make sure the neck was a consistant thickness before repairing it. If its lopsided i would bin that one
A couple of little bits of tube - one a neat fit over the pill and the other sized for the case could work.
Another option is set up a little stand so the extractor groove and the pill are supported and everything else in the middle is floating. A little bit of wood to act as a punch and another bit of kindling and a light tap on the high side of the neck should straighten things up. It doesn't take much to move things, it's not a hammer job just a light tap... I've done this with a couple of v blocks and a tack hammer when some reloads a guy made up were well on the piss, that was a setup issue of the reloading press that created that problem.
You don't want to use anything like a press or a vice with an arm or a thread that supplies the clamping as they have too much power and not enough feel and you'll make the situation worse out the other side.
Ok. After doing quite a bit of research last night in regards to runout I found out its not always bullet seating issues. Can be a case neck runout issues due to FL or neck sizing die issues, which after rolling some already sized cases on a table I could clearly see some wobbly case necks. Bullet and neck runout issues can be due to movement in the presses ram, case holders and/or dies, as in not tightening down firm. I just did a good look over my press and found there's noticeable movement in the ram, gave it a bit of lube which reduced the play. The breech lock doesn't tighten down firmly when in its lock position so the dies can move a little, I tightened it past its locking pin and no more movement. Plus the cases have a lot of movement in the case holder, I fixed this by slipping a thin Oring over the case above the case holder which centers the case in the collet die. I neck sized a dozen cases and they were looking a lot straighter, tried to straighten out the crooked cases but to no avail. One thing I did notice when rolling cases on the table was some were showing runout at the shoulder.
That's quite true, if your case starts on the piss it's not easy to fix it. On the other hand, if the case is straight having everything tight and not able to move and align itself you can pull the case out of straight. Horses for courses...
Yeah. I was just reading a post in another forum in regards to lee putting a flare to all new collet dies and the subject of bullet runout came up. One member was talking about modifying his die to reduce runout by making everything all more ridged and other members questioned him on it. Its made me re-think everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by No.3
Being cast lead and in a 303 of probably generous chamber dimensions I would have no hesitation in firing it if it will chamber which im certain it will. I doubt you will notice any change in accuracy.
It's easy to overthink these things.
I sometimes use my lee "wack a mole" loaders for 3030 and 45/70 they dont look as flash as the full die set ones but work just as well.
thats a problem for the rifling to sort out
shoot 3 before it and finish with that one, Id put a friendly bet on it bieng just fine
A little bit off-topic, but I've been wondering how the cam lock bullet pullers go with cast bullets, given the cast bullets are fairly soft and often crimped?
As Marty Henry said, it’s easy to overthink things. We used to cut the tips off fmj 303 ammo at times and shoot out of fucked old barrels, still shot a lot of animals.
Unless this brass is super rare/expensive, I'd chuck it and use new brass, it does not last forever despite what the AMP people want you to believe!Quote:
Originally Posted by Three O'Three
These days all brass is super rare/expensiveQuote:
Originally Posted by caberslash
Same hearQuote:
Originally Posted by Cigar
if you worried about run out....start your projectile with seating die as normal and then stop and turn it half way around in the die and continue stroke..it SHOULD all things being equal improve your run out no end...everyone Ive suggested this to who actually measures shit confirms it does work.
In the late 80's I began reloading for my Sportco .222. Picked up some second hand RCBS dies. Couldn't shoot for shit. Then, quite by accident I watched a recently reloaded round roll across my desk. FFS!!! the projo wobbled all over the show:wtfsmilie: Turned out the die was rooted. Sent off a letter to RCBS with a resized case (remember writing a letter with a pen and paper?) and they came straight back with a brand new set of dies!
Then Gillie glass bedded it for me as a Wednesday lunchtime perk job in the armoury shop in Waiouru 4 ATG Workshops, and bugger me that little rifle shot half moa all day long. Shot a shitload of donks with that wee rifle. It also dropped an 800kg Waiouru wild bull stone dead by rattling a 55 gn fmj up its ear canal @75m:cool: Jeeze that resulted in an awful lot of meat!!!
Yes it does!Quote:
Originally Posted by caberslash
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I dont tighten my dies. Quite the opposite, I deliberately removed my shell holder clip, always loosen my dies so they can naturally center. I get close to no runout. But you gotta have good dies and brass. I even bought the lee locking rings as they seat a rubber seal instead of direct contact.
I dont tighten my dies. Quite the opposite, I deliberately removed my shell holder clip, always loosen my dies so they can naturally center. I get close to no runout. But you gotta have good dies and brass. I even bought the lee locking rings as they seat a rubber seal instead of direct contact.
