Thread: Stupid Question. bare with me please

Newish reloader, have done alot of study and have had some success..Am reloading for 6.5 creedmoor Tikka T3x rifle, have been getting reloading data off XXL reloading am now looking at the New Hornardy 11th edition.. Am impressed by no.s however I am using Lapua brass and either wind river or federal primers the Lapua brass seems to be quite short 48.5 mil. I am looking at throwing the 147g Eld-m using Alliant 16/26. Hornardy manual says 71.12 mil COAL whereas I have been loading other ammunition to 70.1 mil ( 129 SST) I quess my question is, I don't know the Max cartridge length my rifle can handle, am I safe using the published COAL using different brass/primer as long as I start at the low end? and observe pressure signs ?!?!

Longer = less projectiles back into case= more case capacity which in turn = less pressure

Case overall length for your rifle will be determined by either your chamber or what will fit in your mag. A rough way I do it is size a case start to seat a projectile then I load it it my rifle and close the bolt on it remove round and that will give you your max chamber length, then you can see if the round fits in your mag. That's how I do it for all my rifles without special measuring gear.

You should be fine using Hornadys published coal for that projectile.

That said there are several ways to determine max coal for your rifle/bullet combination without having to purchase specialist equipment.
I use my cleaning rod and a bit of tape (youtube it) I've also used a fired case that's been resized and then cut a slot in the neck, again youtube it.
Locktite and a fired case is another method.

Alternatively you can load to your shorter coal and start at published minimum load and work up.

IMHO it is very useful to learn how to find the lands and then work out your bullet jump, it will expand your understanding of reloading.

To my mind this is exactly what forums are for. Ask away mate. better to be safe.

First question is what twist barrel have you got? The 147 is a heavy pill and likely needs an 8 twist.

If you are new to reloading I would not get too hung up on trimming cases. I personally never trim but I do use an M die. I have never had an issue with case necks hitting the back of the throat. I know they grow over time and if you don't use an M Die you may have inconsistent neck tension. For now I wouldn't worry about it. 90% of the crap we do makes little difference. The spec is 48.771mm

As for the COAL I generally ignore that altogether. In a factory hunting rifle the throat is generally long unless its a Howa. I have done loads for 2 of those recently and they were bloody good! Rem 700 are long. I seat a projectile progressively till it jams slightly in the lan's then set them back 10thou. Then check they fit your mag.

Run your powder up till it settles to a low ES on your chrony then adjust your seating depth to adjust your group size 3-5 thou steps. I only ever shoot 3 shot groups during this process. Without a crony you are flying blind and this system will not work well. EDIT: Powder selection is pretty critical! If you are reading this and think you can apply this to your loads and do as I say here you will get into trouble. I determine all my loads in QL before I do this. It has never failed me! Not once!!

I thinking you may have to stick with your 129 SST load.

if so a starting recommendation would be 129SST with 44grains of Reloader 17 and that will be somewhere close to max pressure. My experience with QL is you will find your ES will level out about 2% above that. If you feel more comfortable starting lower then by all means do so, but you will find primers wont start showing pressure till you are in the red zone. That said pressure shows up differently in every gun so if you are not sure what you are doing I would not recommend you go above the 44 Grains I have suggested here.

I hope this helps and keep me posted how you get on.

Edit I couldn't post QL data. Seriously questioning the wisdom of posting this. Its all easy in my head as I type it and happy to help but then you think of the wider implications and maybe this is not smart. Lets see how it goes. If I get flamed I'm out.

Process I now use, & works well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zglr3m5v-nI

Originally Posted by Taranaki Shooter

To my mind this is exactly what forums are for. Ask away mate. better to be safe.

First question is what twist barrel have you got? The 147 is a heavy pill and likely needs an 8 twist.

If you are new to reloading I would not get too hung up on trimming cases. I personally never trim but I do use an M die. I have never had an issue with case necks hitting the back of the throat. I know they grow over time and if you don't use an M Die you may have inconsistent neck tension. For now I wouldn't worry about it. 90% of the crap we do makes little difference. The spec is 48.771mm

As for the COAL I generally ignore that altogether. In a factory hunting rifle the throat is generally long unless its a Howa. I have done loads for 2 of those recently and they were bloody good! Rem 700 are long. I seat a projectile progressively till it jams slightly in the lan's then set them back 10thou. Then check they fit your mag.

Run your powder up till it settles to a low ES on your chrony then adjust your seating depth to adjust your group size 3-5 thou steps. I only ever shoot 3 shot groups during this process. Without a crony you are flying blind and this system will not work well. EDIT: Powder selection is pretty critical! If you are reading this and think you can apply this to your loads and do as I say here you will get into trouble. I determine all my loads in QL before I do this. It has never failed me! Not once!!

I thinking you may have to stick with your 129 SST load.

if so a starting recommendation would be 129SST with 44grains of Reloader 17 and that will be somewhere close to max pressure. My experience with QL is you will find your ES will level out about 2% above that. If you feel more comfortable starting lower then by all means do so, but you will find primers wont start showing pressure till you are in the red zone. That said pressure shows up differently in every gun so if you are not sure what you are doing I would not recommend you go above the 44 Grains I have suggested here.

I hope this helps and keep me posted how you get on.

Edit I couldn't post QL data. Seriously questioning the wisdom of posting this. Its all easy in my head as I type it and happy to help but then you think of the wider implications and maybe this is not smart. Lets see how it goes. If I get flamed I'm out.

Standard twist rate for 6.5 Creedmoor is 1:8 so the 147 will be fine.

The Lyman M die is not necessary to get consistent neck tension. A standard set of reloading dies is fine.

10 thou back from being jammed into the rifling is a good way to get a pressure spike.

Needs a lot of rounds to give a good enough sample size to say with any certainty that a particular charge is giving a better ES than another. 3 rounds is not nearly enough. It probably won't make any meaningful difference. Same goes for grouping.

Adjusting seating depth is also not likely to make any noticeable difference with that bullet in a Creedmoor chamber.

Recommending that they START with what you think is a MAXIMUM load... of what is also an expensive and hard to get powder???

Originally Posted by Mroach

Newish reloader, have done alot of study and have had some success..Am reloading for 6.5 creedmoor Tikka T3x rifle, have been getting reloading data off XXL reloading am now looking at the New Hornardy 11th edition.. Am impressed by no.s however I am using Lapua brass and either wind river or federal primers the Lapua brass seems to be quite short 48.5 mil. I am looking at throwing the 147g Eld-m using Alliant 16/26. Hornardy manual says 71.12 mil COAL whereas I have been loading other ammunition to 70.1 mil ( 129 SST) I quess my question is, I don't know the Max cartridge length my rifle can handle, am I safe using the published COAL using different brass/primer as long as I start at the low end? and observe pressure signs ?!?!

Different bullets have different profiles which results in manufacturers giving them different suggested COAL's. The suggested COAL for the bullet should give it plenty of jump in any SAAMI/CIP specification chamber. So in answer to that question, yes, you are absolutely safe to use the published COAL. The brand of brass and primer that you choose to use has no bearing on this.

As a side, I would ignore whatever XXL reloading is and just stick to the Hornady and Hodgdon data. Reloder 16 can give a little more speed over AR2209/H4350 but not enough to justify the extra cost IMO. Reloder 26 can give even more speed but there are drawbacks to using it in 6.5 Creedmoor. In order to get the extra speed you end up with quite heavily compressed loads and it can be a bit erratic.

I suggest keeping it simple. Stick with AR2209 and stick with the published COAL unless you are going to measure things properly. Do your workup from somewhere safely away from max charge and stop before you exceed the maximum speeds that the data suggests you should top out at (assuming you have the same length barrel, if not adjust your expectations down accordingly).

Not a stupid question at all but for some reason I thought of this

When someone asks your twist, it means they don't know fk all about reloading. Standard 6.5 twist is 1:8

It's a Tikka so 2.83" ( the "medium" mag length) is the over-riding dimension.

The t3x creedmoor comes with an M+ mag which allows 2.950"

Is there such a thing as a custom built with non std twist rate?

Well done on your caliber and rifle choice.
I use and load for a 6.5 creed it was a Tikka but have upgraded to a Sako.
The best way to work out your rifles OAL is buy a Hornady comparator and OAL Guage and a modified case for each caliber you you reload for it saves all the mucking around I've used all the other methods and the Hornady is the way to go.
I have tried a fair few powders in my rifles and I now use Hodgdon Superperformance it's one of the better for the 6.5 it's cheap and easy to get.
I've also used RL26 which goes well but no better and costs twice the price, I also load 147 eldm and 243 eldx I use the same powder charge for both and the shoot the same POI out to 400M.

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Hey mate,

Just in my experience when I started reloading I found the most straight forward and simple way to work out how far out you can seat projectiles (if you are not limited by length of the magazine in your tikka) is to part with a few dollars and by an OAL gauge and the relevant modified case.

https://www.hornady.com/modified-cases#!/

It is a precise tool which will give you confidence and allow you to work out your starting point for seating your reloads, which should ideally be 0.02 inches of the lands to allow good function in varied conditions. Sometimes getting closer to the lands using this method will help with consistency of your rounds which is really important.

Anyway, just my 2 cents worth from my experience. Buy once cry once, once you have the gauge you can use it every time you work up a load for a different rifle and have confidence that your measurement is correct.