Sub - X load - Case filler needed?

So stumbled across Sub-X load data on the Hodgdon website for the 190gr using H4895 - though at 13.3 grains. There's no mention of any need to case fill - but, having just thrown 13.3 grains into a 308 case - there's a lot of empty....!

Has anyone else played with this load? Am i overthinking that using a case filler is a must in this instance?

I'm not really keen to throw plastic down the barrel to be honest, though keen to find an alternative to Trailboss for sub loads...

Have contacted Hogdgon for their views on their views..

Your thoughts please.

Attachment 268507

More an FYI at this stage now as I found more info, so, sharing to those interested in results by Ultimate Reloader..

https://ultimatereloader.com/2023/08...s-and-fun-too/

Whatever case filler you use will end up gumming up your suppressor.

You could try a powder like Titegroup. Pitiful case fill, but supposedly position insensitive enough to get away with it. Fast burning so will be nice and quiet too.

Any of the ADI pistol/shotgun flake powders too.

Bloke I bought some Trailboss off told me he uses a smidgen off a cotton bud as filler. Running a sub 308. Had garage full of 8pt sika heads. Just laughed when I asked where.

That is similar to the 30/30 load they have for the sub-x. I emailed them and asked them if it was a type-o or if it was a legitimate load. The answer was along the lines of, 'for this projectile for this load this is tested as safe..'

Is the whole 'case full' theory bunk? I don't know, is the whole 'you have to load more than 50% of the case blah blah blah' bunk? I don't know.

Some of these very light sub loads would indicate that severely underloading with some types of powder appear to be fine.

To be clear, I don't know :)

Loads made up using Hodgdons data - I'll test and report back...

I've never used any filler with the likes of unique, 700x 4227, etc in cast bullet loads. Old Lyman loading books got me started and they specifically avoid filler. As to case fill, 10 gr of a shotgun or pistol powder in a 3030 size case is well under half full so the only caution would be nit to accidentally double charge

i've used Kapok scavenged from an old pillow. I works well except when you squeeze the trigger it looks like snow storm just left the barrel.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by inglishill

That is similar to the 30/30 load they have for the sub-x. I emailed them and asked them if it was a type-o or if it was a legitimate load. The answer was along the lines of, 'for this projectile for this load this is tested as safe..'

Is the whole 'case full' theory bunk? I don't know, is the whole 'you have to load more than 50% of the case blah blah blah' bunk? I don't know.

Some of these very light sub loads would indicate that severely underloading with some types of powder appear to be fine.

To be clear, I don't know :)

---

If filler was required, it would be included in the data. They're not stupid.

Greetings all,
Hodgdons has thoroughly tested reduced loads with AR2206H (aka H4895) over recent years and we need to take their data as sound. We should not even consider the need to add or subtract anything due to what someone said, was told or just imagined. Fillers should never be used in bottle necked cases as they can destroy a rifle. Early versions of 4895 and H4895 were often used in reduced loads and the current AR2206H/ H4895 is even better. I have used AR2206H for reduced recoil target loads for some years and although it does burn a bit dirty it has always been accurate.
Regards GPM.

I have no experience of 2206h or 4895 in sub-X loads - but I'm using the 175gr Sub-X in .308 with 9.5gr of Trailboss to the cannelure on the bullet with a crimp. Stable in 1-10" twist, 20" barrel and 1040-1060 FPS from memory. Hitting at 50m about 6" down and slightly to the right from a 1.5" high at 100m supersonic load zero.

I am happy with this load, started at 10.0grains which was about 1180FPS and crackling down the range (right on the supersonic speed) and dropped it down 0.5gr to keep it sub. I would start a little higher (there's a guide on the ADI site if I recall where you work out the case full with the pill in and work out the 'safe' start load with trailboss). You then work down to a safe subsonic load without the can on and confirm it's stable and then try it with the can on.

I would not be keen to use a filler with a suppressor, just with the risk of filler material catching in the can (at the very least with most cans it would be an utter arse trying to clean it out of them).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TeRei

Bloke I bought some Trailboss off told me he uses a smidgen off a cotton bud as filler. Running a sub 308. Had garage full of 8pt sika heads. Just laughed when I asked where.

---

Not really a good idea to use filler with Trail Boss, Hogdgon warns against it and compressing it is not a good idea
Red Dot is similar in bulk to Trail Boss with a 187-grain cast bullet 9.5 grains gives a Velicity of 1270 fps