Attachment 12867
Man it pisses me off
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Attachment 12867
Man it pisses me off
happen when your seating the projectile?
Maybe not a big enough chamfer on case mouth?
Seating die set too low or brass needs trimming.
Trim all brass to same length put one in shell holder put ram right up. Wind die down till it touches neck and wind back up half a turn. Lock it and adjust seating depth from there.
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both cases were once fired untrimmed
happens when seating projectile, i push alittle too hard right at the end of the stroke and it crumples
If I seat softly it dosent happen
so trimming could well be the issue
looks like hydraulic damage
ie too much lube is being pushed into the shoulder of the die and hydraulically damaging the case shoulder.
What VC said, looks like your seating die iis contacting your brass. Surely you must feel the pressure difference when this happens? Is it occuring all the time or only on the odd case? if its the latter it sounds like its probably time to trim your brass.Quote:
Originally Posted by veitnamcam
If this was the case wouldn't that happen before he seating bullets? Photo Looks like this is occuring while bullet seating?Quote:
Originally Posted by sakkaranz
it only happens when i think it needs to go a mm more than it wants to.
then instead of the stroke continueing differcltly it gets real easy while it crumples
is it possibel it is caused from excess lube on the outside of the case neck causing that grip?
it happened on the first case today 243 and mid run of the 280
only one every now and then
definitly happens when seating the pill
I looked at the photo at first and thought that the red tip had fallen if the left one haha
Haha na that's a targex 95gr and a 162 amax
Are you doing a VLD chamfer ?
Are you lubing inside the neck and the projectile?
How much neck tension are you using ? (Measure neck OD before and after seating)
i lube inside the of the case when sizing but not the pills
ill have to load a few more to see neck tension
whats a vld chamfer?
I chamfer my cases before bullet seating
A VLD chamfer tool cuts a 22 degree internal chamfer on your brass to allow less deformation of VLD projectiles when seating them, it achieves its goal by allowing more precise lead in and less effort required to start the seating procedure.
The standard 45 degree cutter is mostly obsolete these days.
Another look at your brass and my guess is there is too much seating friction, either its dirty inside the neck/neck tension is too high/wrong lube.
This sounds like the neck touching the crimp part of the die to me as in my other post .Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill999
The die is trying to crimp the case mouth into a canalure on the projectile that isn't there and you are still trying to force the projectile deeper.
You would have to have massively under size necks to do this. Are you full length sizeing? And if so is the expander in it?
The fl die sizes down too small then expands it back up on the withdraw stroke.
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Dies are lee rgb
And yea my chamfering tool is 45deg
It's odd tho the projectiles only stick on the last mm or 2 till then they slide In well enough
I give up
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it would have to be the seating die wound in too far. From memory with one of the Lee dies I have you have to go slowly at the end, actually that might be the collet die.
Can you wind it out a bit so that the crimper is not engaging at all?
Sorry for the in-exactness of my post but I've just shot in for a cup. Capsuling 2 tooths today, yay
You've probably given me the answer Mate iv just gotta try cleaning the necks before lubing, mesure od before and after seating. Lube projectiles and reset seating die, clean it and look at buying a vld chamfer
Iv had enough of reloading for today, drives me nuts sometimes
the funny thing about the seating die is I was following the projectile back bit by bit back into the case. mesuring at each step,
im wondering now if my dies are not suited to vld type projectiles and to seat them back enough into the case causes the seating part of the die to contact the top of the case and cause the damage?
I have done this myself
die set to deep it is trying to crimp as you are seating
So have you trimmed all your brass to the same length and set your die properly yet?
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nah mate iv loaded all my projectiles up for the ladder test, once i have a bit of good weather ill be back into seeing what load works
then ill load up the lot and update
Lubed the projectiles as I went tonight, pills slipped in much easier and problem seems solved as I can back off when needed on the pressure if their is a bind
Makes me think maybe I should be cleaning my cases, beyond looking professional is their any point to the case cleaners?
Yes, you wont get collapsed shoulders from excessive seating friction :) :) :)
hahaha
would be able to replace hundreds of collapsed shoulder cases before justifying the cost of the tumbler
any cheaper method for someone who dosent load many cases each year?
I done vinegar and baking soda one time years back but i dont like the idea that it could be compromising the powder once loaded up
Bronse bore brush in a drill up the necks
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I still find it kinda incredible you have that much neck tension you can collapse the case dirty or not.
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Are you getting consistent lengths having to back off and re try during seating?
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must be my super tough arms
I usually get it right first time unless i short stroke
the crumpeling did happen at the end of the stroke each time it did happen so it may well have been long cases, on those two particular that started the crumple then the neck tension took over, the neck tension was immense, it was hard work seating the bullets
The real quetion is how do you set up the Seating die?.Because a VLD is a boat tail (I assume) and the tolerances on the Lee dies is not that fine.
The way I set up a die is to put the case in the holder and then raise the case to max height .Then screw the die onto the case and back it off maybe half a turn,then with the projectile seater at max screw it in a bit at a time untill seating depth is set,with long projectiles sometimes you have to backup the die more than half a turn.
It is possible to size the neck too small ,but only measung the inside of the neck will tell you but I dought that is your problem.Another is check you have the right size projectile ,it's sometimes the most obvious things that we overlook.
Those cases are crumpled by 100 or 200 thou.
Yet, the bullet is seated right down into the neck - the ogive is at the mouth and its a long bullet.
So, I don't think its the bullet grabbing on a too tight / stcky neck. If it was, the bullet wouldn't have gone so far into the neck.
Something must be contacting the neck / shoulder itself. Its not just pressure on the bullet that's doing this.
The seating die was set far too short for those knackered rounds yet was apparently right for most of them ?
I've sometimes had the bullet seated about 100 thou too deep if the case isn't properly seated in the case holder. I have a co-ax press with sliding plates not standard case holders so its an easy mistake for me to make but perhaps it could happen if you got the base off line a bit in a standard setup ?
My 2c is to wind out the seating die itself from the press body using the lock ring. Then adjust the bullet seating depth by screwing in the adjusting screw for the seating stem into the die.
ps I've also had cases look like that after trying to size them by hammering into the wrong end of my lee loader !!
I think you are on the money there mate, what I think iv been doing is taking the case up till it contacts the die to get the correct seating depth, and stopping when it gets hard.
the problem occurs when i push past that point and the opening of the case must contact inside at the top of the die
problem cause seating die set down too far,
hiding the problem dirty case necks and not enough lube(so the contacting of the case is hidden inside the differculty
Ill reset my die next time before I use it again
yea mate its the correct projectile, thats for sure. or there would be some serious issues
Finally !
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Appears there is a shiny mark on the top of the case mouth.
I believe they are seat and crimp dies - fine on pistol but not on anything rifle.
It's crimping the mouth as its still tring to seat projectile.
Back the die right out and wind the seater in all the way.
Wind die down until you are close to seating depth then back the seater stem out a couple of turns and wind the die in a couple. Should be well clear of the taper in the top of the die.
You can you the taper crimp to crimp, but as a separate stage after seating.
Dies are RCBS two die set, I wasnt aware they crimped, but then again the instructions were for 3 different sets on the same page
