Whats your neck turning process?

Ok so i have recently purchased some neck turning gear, and will be starting to turn my necks soon (once i get a case trimmer)

I have read through the tutorial at http://www.6mmbr.com/neckturningbasics.html several times, and have watched several videos on youtube, and think i have a pretty good handle on it, and have a had a wee practice with some old brass.

I dont HAVE to turn, but merely WANT to turn to get consistent neck thickness and neck tension in an attempt to get accuracy as good as possible for my long range rifle. 7mm SAUM

What i am interested in is what do you do in regards to your process/steps before turning?

IE, in that article on 6mmbr it mentions FL sizing the brass prior to turning, so that the neck is sized all the way down to the shoulder (as a bushing die with leave a small un-sized radius just above the shoulder) Do you do this? I have both bushing neck dies and a FL die, so can do it no worries.

Ok, so the process i am looking at is:

1. FL size brass
2. Trim all brass to same length
3. Measure wall thickness on all brass, and find the min thickness
4. Turn all brass to that minimum thickness

I have two lots of brass that i use, some used Rem 7SAUM and some new Norma 300 SAUM that i have necked down (the Norma have slightly thicker necks) would it make sense to turn both brands of brass to the same thickness for ease of setup etc?

Am i on the right track here, feel free to let me know what you do/what works for you.

Cheers guys.

Hi GWH, firstly determine what neck thickness and tension gives you the tightest groups at 500 and 1000yrds.

The range results will tell you everything you need to know.

For example -your rifle and load may like the thickest necks possible so you might not need to trim in the first place.

Use once fired brass and do 4 at a time so if you ruin their accuracy it's not a big loss to you.

Take your reloading and case prep gear to your range to speed up the process.

We often like to tinker and tell the rifle what we want it to do accuracy wise, but the rifle will soon tell you what it likes.

Don't be fooled into thinking this is a fast process, the first sentence in this post may take you months of calm mornings/afternoons to come to a measurable conclusion, fortunately you can have some real fun during the learning process.

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Originally Posted by 7mmsaum

Hi GWH, firstly determine what neck thickness and tension gives you the tightest groups at 500 and 1000yrds.

The range results will tell you everything you need to know.

For example -your rifle and load may like the thickest necks possible so you might not need to trim in the first place.

Use once fired brass and do 4 at a time so if you ruin their accuracy it's not a big loss to you.

Take your reloading and case prep gear to your range to speed up the process.

We often like to tinker and tell the rifle what we want it to do accuracy wise, but the rifle will soon tell you what it likes.

Don't be fooled into thinking this is a fast process, the first sentence in this post may take you months of calm mornings/afternoons to come to a measurable conclusion, fortunately you can have some real fun during the learning process.

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This all makes a lot of sense Andrew, and certainly sounds like great advice - Especially the bit i have highlighted in RED ;-) and the bit about only doing 4 at a time, so you don't end up potentially stuffing the whole lot.

Yes i bet it would take some time to test the different combinations of wall thickness and tension at distance. Even harder for a bloke like me who struggles to find places to shoot at these distances ;-)

I just pretty much swivel my head and the muscles on either side of my neck do the rest. Been able to do it pretty much since birth. Sorry GWH, I couldn't resist

I think Rushy should be banned from the reloading section :D:eek:

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

Puku, I am waiting for the day that he finally gives in, payback will be sweet :P

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Originally Posted by puku

I think Rushy should be banned from the reloading section :D:eek:

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to be fair, I don't come in all that frequently Puku otherwise I woulkd be up to ten thousand posts already

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ebf

Puku, I am waiting for the day that he finally gives in, payback will be sweet :P

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We all know
he WILL cave in. The question is not if but when...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rushy

to be fair, I don't come in all that frequently Puku otherwise I woulkd be up to ten thousand posts already

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Haha to true Rushy

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

Hi GWH, I have just a bushing die for the cases I turn rather than both, and the Forster neck turning add-on to the case trimmer tool that won't get down into the neck-shoulder junction anyway, so if for any reason you don't end up prepping cases with the non-bushing die then it's still do-able, setting the bushing down as far as it will go, turned the necks as far as that point, and then they can be sized down to close to that point meaning still about 70-80% of the neck which tends to be about as much as I apply anyway for non-turned necks. Despite not turning the full neck or any shoulder I don't think they'll need to be re-visited. With improved cases the shoulders seem to stay put and not creep around the corner and necks not thicken so much. The SAUMs quite sharp isn't it, should be similar ?
I don't know what turning tool you have but I found that the expander button took the necks out a little bit further than ideal for a snug fit on the mandrel from Forster. I had expected the mandrel to be around .282" but was something a little less than that when measured - getting a snug fit on the mandrel being pretty key to the whole process.
You say that you don't need to turn, so are you still using an expander on the bushing set? Regardless of potential concentricity issues with the use of expanders, they do also seem to be the main cause of lengthened necks in my cases. I'm very pleased I turned and did away with the expander for this reason alone + no inside neck lube anymore !

[QUOTE=GWH;156376]Ok so i have recently purchased some neck turning gear, and will be starting to turn my necks soon (once i get a case trimmer)Hi GWH, first use the expander mandrel and expander mandrel body that you bought. The expander mandrel gives exactly the right clearance inside the neck for the turning process. Keep the mandrel lightly lubed, Imperial die wax is a good choice. Turn the entire neck and a fraction onto the shoulder doesn't hurt.

I have read through the tutorial at http://www.6mmbr.com/neckturningbasics.html several times, and have watched several videos on youtube, and think i have a pretty good handle on it, and have a had a wee practice with some old brass.

I dont HAVE to turn, but merely WANT to turn to get consistent neck thickness and neck tension in an attempt to get accuracy as good as possible for my long range rifle. 7mm SAUM

What i am interested in is what do you do in regards to your process/steps before turning?

IE, in that article on 6mmbr it mentions FL sizing the brass prior to turning, so that the neck is sized all the way down to the shoulder (as a bushing die with leave a small un-sized radius just above the shoulder) Do you do this? I have both bushing neck dies and a FL die, so can do it no worries.

Ok, so the process i am looking at is:

1. FL size brass
2. Trim all brass to same length
3. Measure wall thickness on all brass, and find the min thickness
4. Turn all brass to that minimum thickness

I have two lots of brass that i use, some used Rem 7SAUM and some new Norma 300 SAUM that i have necked down (the Norma have slightly thicker necks) would it make sense to turn both brands of brass to the same thickness for ease of setup etc?

Am i on the right track here, feel free to let me know what you do/what works for you.

Cheers guys.[/QUOTE

I've got the Hornady neck turning tool. Its not a high end product, but because it didn't cost a fortune I got stuck in and modified it a little.

-I stoned the angle on the end of the tool so it matches the angle of the shoulder exactly, so now I can turn the entire length of the neck right down to the shoulder. This is great as you don't get those ring-bulges you get if you can't turn the entire neck. To get consistent results, simply trim all cases to length first and it will be 100% first time every time.

-I also tapped a small hole in the frame, then put a small screw in that clamps down on the adjustment dial holding it rock solid. I then put vivd marks on the index wheel so I can go straight to these settings for the various thickness I turn to...speeds up the process and works great.

I through away the POS handle/holder that comes in the kit and now run the cases in a lee trimmer/shell holder base, mounted in a drill. And as others have said a quick spray of lanolin or imperial sizing wax as a lube on the mandrel is used to keep it running smooth.

kj

Quote:

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Originally Posted by graeme

Hi GWH, first use the expander mandrel and expander mandrel body that you bought. The expander mandrel gives exactly the right clearance inside the neck for the turning process. Keep the mandrel lightly lubed, Imperial die wax is a good choice. Turn the entire neck and a fraction onto the shoulder doesn't hurt.

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G'day Graeme.

Yeah sorry, i should have included that on my steps listed, i have used it for my practice runs, and the Imperial die wax, no worries.

Just really wanted to check about the FL sizing first before turning.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rushy

I just pretty much swivel my head and the muscles on either side of my neck do the rest. Been able to do it pretty much since birth. Sorry GWH, I couldn't resist

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I was thinking the same thing mate. When I see a pretty girl my head turns thus turning my neck

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Puffin

Hi GWH, I have just a bushing die for the cases I turn rather than both, and the Forster neck turning add-on to the case trimmer tool that won't get down into the neck-shoulder junction anyway, so if for any reason you don't end up prepping cases with the non-bushing die then it's still do-able, setting the bushing down as far as it will go, turned the necks as far as that point, and then they can be sized down to close to that point meaning still about 70-80% of the neck which tends to be about as much as I apply anyway for non-turned necks. Despite not turning the full neck or any shoulder I don't think they'll need to be re-visited. With improved cases the shoulders seem to stay put and not creep around the corner and necks not thicken so much. The SAUMs quite sharp isn't it, should be similar ?
I don't know what turning tool you have but I found that the expander button took the necks out a little bit further than ideal for a snug fit on the mandrel from Forster. I had expected the mandrel to be around .282" but was something a little less than that when measured - getting a snug fit on the mandrel being pretty key to the whole process.
You say that you don't need to turn, so are you still using an expander on the bushing set? Regardless of potential concentricity issues with the use of expanders, they do also seem to be the main cause of lengthened necks in my cases. I'm very pleased I turned and did away with the expander for this reason alone + no inside neck lube anymore !

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Thanks for this Puffin, interesting to hear you use a bushing die prior to turning, and dont cut all the way to the shoulder, do you find that you get a donut forming on the inside of the neck/shoulder junction?

I have the Sinclair turning tools. I have redding standard FL die with expander button (that i plan to use prior to turning) I also have the Redding competition bushing neck die which doesnt have an expander at all (so i guess i really do need to turn to use this die). I had actually ordered the carbide expander kit for the competition bush die (which is designed to be used in the competition dies for brass that isnt turned, to push any inconsistancys to the outside), but i ended up picking up the neck turning gear prior to the new expander arriving from Sinclairs anyway.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kimjon

I've got the Hornady neck turning tool. Its not a high end product, but because it didn't cost a fortune I got stuck in and modified it a little.

-I stoned the angle on the end of the tool so it matches the angle of the shoulder exactly, so now I can turn the entire length of the neck right down to the shoulder. This is great as you don't get those ring-bulges you get if you can't turn the entire neck. To get consistent results, simply trim all cases to length first and it will be 100% first time every time.

-I also tapped a small hole in the frame, then put a small screw in that clamps down on the adjustment dial holding it rock solid. I then put vivd marks on the index wheel so I can go straight to these settings for the various thickness I turn to...speeds up the process and works great.

I through away the POS handle/holder that comes in the kit and now run the cases in a lee trimmer/shell holder base, mounted in a drill. And as others have said a quick spray of lanolin or imperial sizing wax as a lube on the mandrel is used to keep it running smooth.

kj

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I like the idea of the matching cutter to the shoulder angle, i actually see that different angle cutters are available for the Sinclair turning tool. I tried to get the power adapter/case holder in my last order from Sinclairs but the bloody things were out of stock bugger it.

Cheers for the replies.

About $10 for a lee one from Reloader supplies. Will do the same job

kj

Hi GWH, yes, a donut or ring-bulge as Kimjon mentions, but if the chamber has a standard neck it all expands well out of the way on first firing and then subsequently only the sized portion is in contact with the bullet. I guess if the chamber had a tight neck clearance then this wouldn't work. It was a work-around for not wanting to buy an additional non-bushing die just for pre-turning prep. Almost certainly it would have been better to have done it properly and get a die that can size right down to the neck-shoulder and then use a profiled cutter, giving the option of gripping the bullet with all the available neck.

Thanks Puffin, that does make sense, cheers for clarifing that.

Some neck turning questions.

I'm currently borrowing a Sinclair 1000 from a mate. Using my Lee shell holder. Unless you tighten it down pretty hard, the case sometimes unscrews itself when the cutter takes the first bite. Anyone using a K&M case holder experiencing this ?

Also, is there really a benefit to having carbide cutter and carbide turner mandrel ? It's only cutting brass after all...

Lastly, I see the K&M has a cutter on the mandrel to deal with the "doughnut". I'm turning Lapua brass that has probably been fired 15 times after initialy been turned. Only taking a tiny bit (around 1mm) off near the neck shoulder junction. How real is the doughnut problem in non magnum calibers ?

I found that the cartridge neck tension on the neck turner spindle varied too much. So. now I anneal all of the cases before neck turning and the neck tension is now consistent, and, perhaps, the neck thickness is more consistent. I use a Makita battery drill on slow speed to hold the case base and I am sure that this makes the neck thickness more consistent.

Personally have never found any improvement in accuracy by neck turning cases for standard neck dimensions. Definitely in and also a necessity in a tight competition necked chamber. With your standard average factory chamber with usually fairly sloppy neck dimensions the brass will just expand out and have to be sized down more to grip the projectile. You may gain a small advantage in run out by only neck turning the brass on the high side. This is assuming you're using high quality brass to start with such as Lapua and high quality hand dies or Redding type bushing dies, which you appear to have.

Anyway, it's good to learn another reloading skill and you've got nothing to lose except time. You may even see an improvement in your rifles accuracy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ebf

Some neck turning questions.

I'm currently borrowing a Sinclair 1000 from a mate. Using my Lee shell holder. Unless you tighten it down pretty hard, the case sometimes unscrews itself when the cutter takes the first bite. Anyone using a K&M case holder experiencing this ?

Also, is there really a benefit to having carbide cutter and carbide turner mandrel ? It's only cutting brass after all...

Lastly, I see the K&M has a cutter on the mandrel to deal with the "doughnut". I'm turning Lapua brass that has probably been fired 15 times after initialy been turned. Only taking a tiny bit (around 1mm) off near the neck shoulder junction. How real is the doughnut problem in non magnum calibers ?

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Yep, I am using a K&M neck turning tool for lapua .308 brass once it is sized down to .260. I don't have any issues with the case holder though it needs to be more than finger tight - I lightly tighten it with a spanner to ensure it holds the cases firmly. Can't comment on the carbide cutter - a smoother cutter would have to be an advantage. I definitely get a donut forming .308 to .260, way back when I was only cutting the outside of the neck you could feel the donut when seating projectiles. Now I use the K&M tool with the cutter on the mandrel. Now have nice consistent neck with consistent neck tension. I suppose I should be annealing now...

For what it is worth anneal before you turn because otherwise you are shaving hardened brass. Use the K&M turners.Now we skim our necks just to clean them up.