Thread: Who still makes 0.223" diameter projectiles?

To be honest, it's been hard to find .223 diameter projectiles for the older bores for a long time. Some times they are available, and when they are you by in bulk. From what a couple of retailers have told me they don't move quickly if they get them in and it's generally one person picking up the whole contingent or half of it or so they are going to 'order in' (if they are available) if a customer really wants them.

Most people are just using .224 and going with that, if you measure them out using accurate kit most are slightly over diameter and the rifling in the throat sorts everything else out once the pill starts moving. I doubt you will notice anything using the nominal .224 pills... What you will get with the newer spec pills is the option to go to harder projectiles than what a lot of the available .223 diameter ones are specc'd for - most of those from my experience being 'varmint' style or exposed lead tip and designed to operate at Hornet to less than .222 velocities. That should offer better penetration on heavier game all things being equal, which offers a better safety margin if the pill encounters something harder than expected on the way to somewhere vital.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

So you limited to 50 grn. No biggie. Speer make awesome soft projectiles. The 50&52 grn hollow points are great on game from 223, yours will poke them out at similar speed to what I have done for years.

admittedly I was a little surprised the twist was 1 in 16, had expected 1 in 14 or so but I suppose 1 in 16 is about the same as the 222 rifles of the era, there seems to be plenty 30-50gr projectiles about so have plenty to choose from, just not quite as cheap as the bulk 55gr from hornady, may yet try some of those and see what happens.

Originally Posted by No.3

To be honest, it's been hard to find .223 diameter projectiles for the older bores for a long time. Some times they are available, and when they are you by in bulk. From what a couple of retailers have told me they don't move quickly if they get them in and it's generally one person picking up the whole contingent or half of it or so they are going to 'order in' (if they are available) if a customer really wants them.

Most people are just using .224 and going with that, if you measure them out using accurate kit most are slightly over diameter and the rifling in the throat sorts everything else out once the pill starts moving. I doubt you will notice anything using the nominal .224 pills... What you will get with the newer spec pills is the option to go to harder projectiles than what a lot of the available .223 diameter ones are specc'd for - most of those from my experience being 'varmint' style or exposed lead tip and designed to operate at Hornet to less than .222 velocities. That should offer better penetration on heavier game all things being equal, which offers a better safety margin if the pill encounters something harder than expected on the way to somewhere vital.

I suppose there aren't many of the older hornets with the 223" bores banging around anymore, at this point im not too concerned about the difference in diameter, it seems pretty common to just run the 224" projectiles, the bore being chrome lined should hopefully negate any jacket hardness differences, I've brought some hornady 50 grain projectiles to play with, turns out the previous owner still had some .223" projectiles that he had intended to give to me with the rifle so I should have enough to see if there's any difference in performance between the two sizes.

Originally Posted by NAKED_GOOSE

admittedly I was a little surprised the twist was 1 in 16, had expected 1 in 14 or so but I suppose 1 in 16 is about the same as the 222 rifles of the era, there seems to be plenty 30-50gr projectiles about so have plenty to choose from, just not quite as cheap as the bulk 55gr from hornady, may yet try some of those and see what happens.

The .223 bores seem to be made using rimfire tooling hence the 1-16" twist, standard for the likes of 22LR. I've not heard of or personally encountered an older .223 barrel with anything faster. The .22WMR is faster twist usually but runs .224 pills.

hornady 50 grn spsx aka super explody worked well on wallabies but were very messy
hornady 50 gen vmax (actually zmax with puke green tips) also work very well and are very messy,they have a little bit of a rounded bum,not a boat tail as such but enough to make starting seating a breaze.
keep us posted as to how you get on.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

hornady 50 grn spsx aka super explody worked well on wallabies but were very messy
hornady 50 gen vmax (actually zmax with puke green tips) also work very well and are very messy,they have a little bit of a rounded bum,not a boat tail as such but enough to make starting seating a breaze.
keep us posted as to how you get on.

I have ordered the spsx, mainly due to them being cheaper by about $10 per packet than the other 50gr projectiles on offer, I'll certainly be referring to them as super explodies
I have about 10 soft point projectiles and 30 hollow points in the ammo to be pulled.

will update on what happens, still waiting on some more brass from the PO, and will have to get a neck turning setup as this rifle seems to have a tight chamber.

Right,
After a fair bit of faffing I've finally got some loaded rounds together, 20gr of 2206H topped with a 50gr super explodey, loaded to 51mm OAL, will take them out and see what happens once the rains stopped
rifle has a tight chamber so they've been neck turned to fit,
also in the block are some 303 and 44 mag that I've got to get around to testing

And a picture of the rifle for some reference, Its a Izhmash Bars 4-1, little rough around the edges, has had the barrel shortened to 16" and threaded but soon to have a suppressor on there.

she will be a true international when suppressed...Russian rifle with??jap?? mounts and American scope and a kiwi suppressor

Not sure on the rings if I'm honest, if it shoots well I might be having a crack at making a walnut stock for it, stock wood doesnt really do it for me as well as there being a few cracks that have been repaired, will be attempting a stock for my rolling block first as the inletting looks easier for a beginner.

Certainly a mix of parts in there, slight teething problems with the neck turning tool but I'll get that sorted as I go.

Got out to shoot some yesterday, so far the groups don't look to flash, although it was somewhat windy,
Shooting at 60M my groups were in excess of 2 inches, I'll keep working the loads upward as i'm still only at 22 grains of 2206H and looking at GRT 26.5 grains would be 38000psi so I should still have a fair bit of room to work up assuming that it will all fit in the case.

will get out again when the wind dies down, then any accuracy issues will be between my ability and potentially the projectile weight.

blue tape in the first image is point of aim, then covered the holes from the first group with more tape for the next load, should of brought another bit of paper
5 shot group, 20 grains of 2206H


4 shot group 21 grains of 2206H (one case wasn't turned enough to chamber)

I reload this cartridge, also in a Bars. I have a couple of comments;

1. A 55 gr projectile is too long for the slow twist. The original bullet was a very short blunt nosed projectile. I suggest a 40gr flat base bullet.

2. .224 could cause high pressure, .221 is the correct diameter - I resize mine with a push-through die from CH Tool and Die.

3. I suggest a faster powder - AR2207 or BM2. I started with 23gr 2207. At 25gr there were definite pressure signs.

I was sub 1 inch at 50m, but still need to do more development. The cartridge has potential.

God. All the rooting around. I know, it's horses for courses. But wouldn't it be a LOT easier to just buy a 222 or 223?

Yes, but if you own the rifle....

Originally Posted by Crusty

Yes, but if you own the rifle....

Was it given to you? Inherited?

Originally Posted by Crusty

I reload this cartridge, also in a Bars. I have a couple of comments;

1. A 55 gr projectile is too long for the slow twist. The original bullet was a very short blunt nosed projectile. I suggest a 40gr flat base bullet.

2. .224 could cause high pressure, .221 is the correct diameter - I resize mine with a push-through die from CH Tool and Die.

3. I suggest a faster powder - AR2207 or BM2. I started with 23gr 2207. At 25gr there were definite pressure signs.

I was sub 1 inch at 50m, but still need to do more development. The cartridge has potential.

I've been finding this out slowly, I've moved down to 40gr speer SP in 224" from what I can find online in the russian forums the bars 4-1 should still be .223" diameter,
Im now using ar2207, have some 23gr charges loaded with those speer 40gr's

my accuracy is terrible, but the rifle has been poorly bedded so im thinking that is some of my issue, around 3" at 50m, of course it could be shooter error too

Originally Posted by Oldbloke

God. All the rooting around. I know, it's horses for courses. But wouldn't it be a LOT easier to just buy a 222 or 223?

At this point I wish I just coughed up the cash for a howa mini in 223, I brought the 220 because it was cheap, still working on load development with standard projectiles so if I can get it shooting well enough it'll do.

I've spent about the same amount of money trying to get this one to work as a used howa mini would of been and I'd like to think that a modern 223 rifle would be minimal faffing compared to this one.


on the less negative side I've jumped into the deep end on reloading so I'm learning a lot, if I consider the cost of the reloading components that came with the rifle as well as the scope I really paid bugger all, maybe I'll switch to a 223 once I get this one sorted.