If you can.change rings out to.
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If you can.change rings out to.
"At this point I wish I just coughed up the cash for a howa mini in 223, I brought the 220 because it was cheap, still working on load development with standard projectiles so if I can get it shooting well enough it'll do."
That sucks. We all make bad decisions once in a while.
Best of luck with it. Hope it works out for you.
probably would be wise to, I'm hoping get out again this morning to test the other scope on the rifle, although the quality of the rifle crown has come into question from a friend, certainly is has a bit of buildup of corrosion/carbon so after testing the scope I will have a crack at cleaning it off and see if anything improves,Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
if nothing comes from that the plan is to get the action out of the stock, currently its glued in with bedding compound from the previous owners DIY job, I'm thinking I'll put it in the chest freezer overnight then start trying to tap it out.
I guess I'll keep posting here, why not lol
hah, I'll happily take whatever luck I can get,Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldbloke
I can't pass up a good deal so I'm just treating it as a learning exercise for now, still have a few ideas to try yet.
What in suggesting is if you can take it off 303 and put straight on the 221 without opening rings you eliminate another variable and if it shoots ok you now KNOW issue is either scope or rings. If however you trasphere scope alone into the,suspect rings and it still doesn't group.the rings may still be issue. If nothing else check they are firm while scopeless.
Slight delay but got out again with the 4x off my enfield, results seem much better, after a few zeroing shots I managed to get 4 shots in 1.5cm at 35m then 3 shots just over an inch at 60m, which considering I could barely see my blue dot I'd say is pretty good.
I think I might try remounting the original scope and seeing if the groups stay half decent, the 4x isn't much good with my bad eyesight,
also managed to shoot one of my target holding standards in half which is a first :XD:
Attachment 254934 Attachment 254935 Attachment 254936
Progress is progress. You now KNOW it's not completely rooted and your loads work.
thats certainly true, I'll keep working on the loads, still using 23gr of 2207 but seems like max will be around 25gr according to previous comments.
Cases are still sooty so will keep going upward, currently the 40gr projectiles are humming along at 3100-3150 fps from the 16" barrel, not much compared to a 223 though.
Almost run out of projectiles so will order some more and get back into it.
Why not revisit the 50 grn spsx with the 4x scope on it.... You still don't know if the normal .224 projectiles are good or not. Your last effort seems to suggest the scope you had on it..or rings were shit. All you changed was to a different scope and suddenly it groups not patterns. Try a bold X as aiming point with the four power scope.
The 50s were very much flying sideways, even at 10m they were long oval holes, running the numbers through a stability calculator looks like 45gr's would be the most it would handle, or 35gr v-max, seems like the 1:16 twist was poor choice, from what info I've found online the sako rifles were 1:14 when chambered in 220, guess its a bit like the early 222 rifles being 1:16 (think it was BSA?)
I have 10 of the .223" projectiles left from the previous owner so maybe I'll throw them in some loads once I'm getting consistent results, would be interesting to see if groups improve with the smaller projectile, then again I'm hardly an experienced shooter and I'm shooting from a fence post so could just need more practice, either way definitely going to have to change up my target, the ol' circle of tail paint is a bit too hard to see :XD:
Shooting over a fencepost means you are kneecapping yourself. At very least get into a damped prone. Or any decent prone position. Ok so lightweight n short only.
Yep, or perhaps to shooting sticks. Picnic table?
just a thought get a 224 lee tumble lube die lube ya 224 projectiles and swage them down my 224 die comes out at 223.5 maybe worth a crack if ya cant get 223 projectiles easily
I'm hoping to take mine to the range on Sunday, will let you know how I go and what loads work.
I'm going to load up some Hornady 40gr and some Sierra 40gr using 2207 and 2219.
Remember that the original projectiles are round nose, flat base. So quite short and work in the slow twist. I think 224 projectiles will make the case neck too tight in the chamber.
I'll load up some .224s too and see how they go.
It's certainly a thought, was also mentioned on the last page about trying to swage the .224" projectiles down, certainly will be an option if I find that the .223" shoot better in my rifle, the .223" projectiles certainly don't seem to come up oftenQuote:
Originally Posted by bluecod1967
its quite a tall fence post, just have to stand with a wide stance to get inline with everything, currently its the best setup I have for repeatability until I make a more permanent shooting rest out the back of the farm, only have 60m of flat where I'm shooting at the moment so once I get the gun shooting better I'm sure I'll want to try 100m+ which will require a change in position.Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
I'm using the sierra 40grs, cause they're the cheapest :P I've tried 2206H but it was too slow so moved on to 2207, you're right about the necks being tight in the chamber, but I'm turning the brass down, without turned brass I couldn't chamber .223" projectiles or .224". It will be interesting to see what results you get, I got sick of trying to filter through the russian forums with the poor translation from google, be good to get some results in english :XD:Quote:
Originally Posted by Crusty
to put your rest into perspective..line up on target,close your eyes for 10 seconds and open them again.....if your not still on the bull your testing yourself more than the rifle.. ITS THAT SIMPLE.
What brass are you using? I'm using Lapua 220 Russian
I've been able to leave the rifle sitting on target balancing on the magazine and sling swivel, I wouldn't be surprised if I'm moving it when touching it so I'll test myself out of curiosity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
Same here, Honestly I don't think anyone else makes it, at least not that's available to us down here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crusty
I've loaded some more rounds and put the old scope on so I'll see what happens
Are you saying you have hard bits of rifle sitting on hard bit of post when shooting???
You will never shoot really tight groups without a bench rest type set up or similar.
Untill you have a set up like that your just wasting components.
Indeed, the magazine is normally touching the back of the post, the whole wooden forend is sitting on the post, the sling swivel is just in front of the post, I'm aware it isn't ideal but its the best I've got to use until I make a bench to shoot off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
I did have some soft bags, think It'd be worth using one of those?
as I'm sure you've noticed I'm a complete novice so not really sure what I'm doing :XD:
you're likely right there, at this point I'm just doing the best with what I have, I think I've been chasing my tail with a scope issue but I'm yet to go out and retest the original buris scope, my original groups were 3-4 inches at 50m, so far thats down to 1.2 inches or so by swapping to another scope.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldbloke
If I can get under an inch at 50m I'll be happy, not sure if my fence post rest will limit me before I can achieve that, guess we'll see soon enough, I'll keep updating as I go along, someone might find it useful and I'll eventually build a shooting bench with more range to play with so we can see if that improves things further.
This rifle should shoot a maximum four shot group size of 65mm at 100m. Mine was recorded by the factory having a 40mm group.
Your rifle should easily achieve 25mm at 50m. Remember that this is not a bench rest rig, it is a hunting rifle, so shoot it like one!
A fence post will work if you can get into a repeatable position, a bag will help and a sturdy seat too.
The bedding might look rough, but they are factory bedded with a brown compound which is effective, the front action screw is also an aluminium pillar.
Don't give up. You've got me fired up with my one, I have ordered some .222 projectiles from Gunworks to try also.
The correct projectile size is uncertain - I think the original Russian was .221" but CIP states 5.67mm which is just over .223"
Another thing with these - the cases are notorious for stretching with heavy loads due to the shoulder angle, so keep an eye on the case length - 38.7mm
Interesting to know about accuracy from the factory, I haven’t come across much info like that but I did come across an adapter that is shaped like a 220 cartridge but is made to shoot 22lr, the bedding on my rifle has been redone with some white sort of material, which has also glued the back of the action into the stock, I’ll play around with that some other time though, currently don’t need to remove the action, although that may come soon enough as my stock has already had repairs so a new one may be in the rifles future.
I read about the case stretching too, so far my cases aren’t too bad but I’ve only just worked up to 23gr loads before chasing the scope issues, but so far the cases are 38.4/38.5mm fired which is the same as the brand new ones.
Ok. So nine folks out of ten will tell you your shooting yourself in foot. I'm in that camp. NO part of rifle should touch something solid. To shoot over a fencepost you do the dreaded hand sandwich...your offhand,the one that's not on trigger is on forend back of hand on top of post. Or left elbow on top of post. If you insist on keeping rifle on post for crying out loud pad it with something soft. But you seriously handicapping yourself. You need to be prone with rifle in both hands with soft cushion,rolled sleeping bag,jacket etc under front hand and forestock or under mag n forend with offhand holding firmly Infront of that. Then line up bullseye,when your steady,close eyes for ten or twenty seconds and open them again.you still lined up??? If not wiggle around and move support padding until you are. An elcheapho bipod Harris knock off is under hundy bucks and will help you get steady but shooting over a soft rest should be second nature to you.
Well now thats certainly neat, my rifle didnt come with anything of the sort although I do believe I had brought it from the original owner,Quote:
Originally Posted by Crusty
Thanks for all the extra tips Micky, as I said above, I'm a novice, I would have shot less than 300 rounds total, 60 of them been from this 220, 20 from a 44 mag, and the rest 22lrQuote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
I'll shoot my next group from some soft bags on the ground and see how it changes, Is it okay to have the target slightly lower than myself or does it need to be level?
I actually just got in from shooting some more rounds and it seems the groups are worse already with the old scope back on it, the overall 6 shot group was 8cm but within that group there were 3 shots within 2cm and 2 shots within 2 cm with 1 flier. still a wide group though.
Guess it'll be interesting to see if theres a measurable improvement with bags vs fence post,
I did try the shut your eye test and I had moved although not by much, still within the blue circle just no longer center.
It does seem that the scope is leading to weird grouping compared to the 4x but I don't know enough to draw much of a conclusion there.
Attachment 255228
Level or not won't matter much at that range.at 25 yards you could shoot pattern like that with a smoothbore shotgun.
I'll have room to shoot out to about 80m, although with the grouping I'm getting I'll probably stick to a 25m/50m or 30m/60m and see what happens.
Hopefully the groups come back when shooting off bags, in saying that if its group at 8cm off a solid rest, shooting off hand is going to be terrible grouping wise,
will load some more up in the next few days and get out with some soft bags to compare, probably going to up the charge too 23.5gr for some as the cases are still coming out sooty at 23gr, going off Crusty's previous post 25gr of 2207 is about max load so a bit more room to play with yet.
Not sure which mounts you have. But they are important.
I have the 7.62x39 version and it shoots steel Barnel ammo entirely adequately.
As Crusty says , they are a working rifle and mine has been a good knock about. Tips over Sika very well.
Don't lose the mag. Although a Ruger Mini 30 might fit.
I used steel rimfire rings as the Dovetail is a weird size.
The trigger can be worked by an experienced Gunsmith. It was two stage from memory.
The stock is Beech so not the flashiest.
Pennyless
Your still not getting it. You should shoot much much better prone with padding than standing no matter how you try it. You are in a much more stable position,that's one of the rules that's simply always been. From memory it goes prone,sitting using knees as elbow rests,kneeling,then standing in order of stability.
I'd suggest trying 24.5gr, but watch out for pressure signs. You can always post a photo of some fired case heads/primers if you want an opinion.
My last load I did was 24.7gr, but a .221" bullet, so a .223" might show higher pressure.
I used steel rimfire rings too, they aren't the easiest mounts to set up. make sure the front mount isn't too far forward where the dovetail widens.
No clue on the mounts, dont see any obvious branding, they seem to work fine with the 4x scope, but then the groups get noticeably worse with the burris 3-9xQuote:
Originally Posted by pennyless
trigger isn't bad imo, reminds me of my TOZ-17, plenty of take up before breaking,
my stock has been cracked on the RH side of the action from where the bolt handle cutout is, its been repaired and seems solid but I wouldn't be surprised if its a weak point now
aye aye captain, I'll get out with bags asap, although I feel the difference in scopes is still note worthy, the burris has almost 2x the grouping size off the same rest compared to the nikko.Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
no clue on the rings as they were on there with the rifle, there is a smidge of surface corrosion on the top so probably a fair guess to say they're steel of some sort. The front ring is mounted a few mm back from where it starts to widen, I could move it back if its likely to be an issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crusty
I feel I should probably work my way up in loads being that I'm using oversized projectiles, but its good to know where my likely max charge will be, Have you chrono'd any of your loads?
yes, some data.
AR2207
22.5 gr. 3392 - but seated too long, so ignore
23.0 gr. 3384
23.5 gr. 3494
25.0 gr. 3693 - this one showed some cratering of the primer, so too hot.
BM2
25.0 gr. 3079
25.5 gr. 3234
26.0 gr. 3315
26.5 gr. 3385
27.0 gr. 3440
What barrel length do you have?
My last chrono'd load was 22gr of 2207 which was an average of 3060fps, but my rifles cut to 16" and suppressed.
Jeez Goose!
you have really sent me down a rabbit hole!
Checked the case necks - fired up my lathe and turned up and threaded a mandrel for my neck Turner (didn't have a .22)
Shortened 50 cases in my RCBS case length lathe/tool then turned all the necks
Loaded up about 30 rounds, 4 different loads using the Sierra 45gr Hornet (this looks like a perfect bullet, Nice and short)
a couple of other .221" loads.
Dismantled the rifle and adjusted the trigger.
Mounted a scope
Fitted some QD swivel sockets for the sling.
Going to the range in the morning.
Will report back with results.....
Sell it.
Buy a 222 or 223.
Sleep well.
Save lots of money.
Save lots of time.
Where's the fun in that!Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldbloke
I enjoy a challenge, I reload about 20 different cartridges, many of them well and truly obsolete.
From the smallest - 297/230 Morris through to 577/500 No2 Express and 577 Snider.
Shooting is fun!
Its certainly good to find someone else with the same rifle, until now felt a bit like fumbling in the dark, its been raining quite a lot here so haven't had a chance to get out as most of the property was underwater yesterday.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crusty
12.7x44r is my other odd caliber, I probably would of accumulated more if it wasn't for the register, although its saved me a fair bit of money on guns I would of bought :XD:
Haha, thats always an option but im avoiding the register for now so I'll keep playing with it, bugger all to shoot at the moment so I don't mind doing something else to still be shooting, probably will be a 223 as I would like to be able to shoot something heavier than 45gr, In saying the the 220 is turning out to be a 22 hornet on steroids looks like I should get a solid 1000fps extra compared to a hornet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldbloke
Right, got out shooting again, this time off soft bags and shooting prone, groups still not very good and one shot that I cant find,
was shooting in the rain but I doubt that made much difference to accuracy, Did the test Micky recommended shutting my eyes for 20 seconds and confirming that I was still on target, it does indeed seem that the soft bags are a more steady rest, I couldn't tell if the reticle had moved off target or not so I'd say much better than before,
I had to add my slip on recoil pad to get enough length to shoot prone, dunno if thats a technique issue or just a short stock for me.
"7" shot group
Attachment 255391
same with the shots circled, still no clue where the 7th shot went
Attachment 255392
So next step is eliminate thenutbehi d the but...someone else who is known to shoot well needs to have a go.i take it that was still with first suspect scope??? If so repeat with the 4x just to again eliminate the scope from equation.
Yeah thats with the suspect scope,
Already browsing for a new scope but I suppose I should retest the 4x to double check,
Don't really know anyone else local that shoots, let alone well,
I'll stick the 4x back on and test some more.
