Thread: Wilcats and Pressure

Originally Posted by L.R

As you say the brass has been designed to take 88k. It may not show pressure signs till this pressure, you don't know as you haven't seen any. So you could be subjecting your action to this much pressure and you don't know. Now you have stated that you see no mechanical reason why the action won't stand up to this, however you have no numbers to support that and at this stage you are just guessing. The action may well take that pressure I'm not sure but I know if I was going to push the limits of something I would like to know at which point failure is likely to occur.

As mentioned before, given the mfg receiver specs we're in a way different league to a 700, so why are limiting ourselves to those specs?
Hell when eveything was on Lee Enfield, and 1903 actions, noone would have ever dreamed of putting a WSM or RUM through it.
The advent of technology and evolution gives us the equipment, materials and processes that far surpass that of 40 yrs ago.
Do you have numerical data to say that 67000 psi is safe? what bolt thrust is generated and shears involved? - I doubt it
What happens when some idiot build a 375/408 on a 700 and uses the justification that its 338 pressures? - not even apples and oranges

Originally Posted by L.R

You seem to have no regard to reasonable safety factors, in fact you seem to ignore the point, running at just a few k psi below the failure point of the brass seems like a big risk with little reward. Safety factors exist because shit does go wrong, and when it does without saftey factor it can cost lives.

I have a big regard for safety factors - you;re making presumptions that the pin is out of the grenade where all logical testing proves otherwise.

Originally Posted by L.R

For me I will keep my ammo bellow 70k, I don't believe that the chey tac case shot out of a Barnard action is some new super round that is safe at 10k or more than other modern well designed magnums. The fact is that the 375 chey tac case and strong custom actions are a combination that has been used for several years now, for KG to be the first to discover that it is safe to push way above the accepted norms seems hard to believe.

What if I told you it was at 70k (not saying it is or isnt) - would your opinion change?
How did magnum design come about when the norm was 50k psi, and why cant their be another step - there was from black powder to smokeless, and from 35k to 50k also, so WHY are we at a point where you CANT develop anything further?
I quote Mr Bertram 'why run your new V8 on kerosene?'

Originally Posted by L.R

Like I have said many times, if you are comfortable shooting you ammo at this pressure you are free to do so it doesn't effect me, I just don't think you should be telling people it is safe to do so when you certainly do not know all the facts.

You seem to be hung up on the fact that where you are for whatever reasons is safe (which is totally fine) but anyone else is wrong.
You have no facts either - only what you are comfortable with based on opinion or superstition.
Why cant the natural progression of development continue - why all of a sudden has hundreds of years of cartridge development stopped in 1989 (338LM) - a long time before big custom actions and brass - which bear little resemblance to then.

I dont mean any of this to come across as a dig as I am genuinely interested in all things guns and this 375 topic and another wildcat have taken my interest.
Both are old and new ideas clashing.
I strongly believe we are at another step in performance and testing and physics will confirm or reject this
As I mentioned before, I'm in negotiations for a Universal receiver for pressure testing so more real data may become avail in the future.

If you could take a pic of the action lugs and bolt - square on for both, and side on for the bolt , I'll draw some points to measure on the pic
Send the info back and I'll do a shear analysis on it.
I have no doubt from rough calcs I've already done, that you will damn near vaporise brass before you have an action issue.
Remember - this aint grandaddys deer huntin' rifle