You'r just trying to talk me into buying one aren't you :O_O:Quote:
Originally Posted by berg243
Printable View
You'r just trying to talk me into buying one aren't you :O_O:Quote:
Originally Posted by berg243
Just a general comment. I agree with what everyone is saying about shot placement with subsonic rounds, but my main reason for posting was to talk about Hornady Sub-X which are literally meant to be a magic bullet, i.e. a purpose designed hunting round which expands at subsonic speeds to allow for more leeway in shot placement. They simply don't do what they say on the tin.
Before this newfangled smokeless powder and copper jacketed bullet craze came along lumps of lead travelling at 12 to 1500 fps seemed to do the job quite efficiently.
At subsonic speeds a 30 cal bullet has about the same potential energy as the 22 magnum but 5 or 6 times the mass so if it doesn't expand or hit something solid it will trundle quite happily through an animal and sail into the distance.
Increase the bullet size to 40 or 45 and give it a large meplat (flat nose) or better a hollow point and energy transfer is much better but it will never match a supersonic impact for tissue disruption and carnage.
I shoot a bit of lead at things and run everything at above the speed of sound. My current favourite is a single shot 38/55 using Robert's flat nose bullets with a mv of 1425 fps.
The report unsupressed is no worse than a 22 lr probably a bit quieter.
I think a different mind set and expectation is needed when deciding to go sub and a thorough understanding of trajectory and anatomy helps still don't expect to see instant kills unless you are very lucky with shot placement.
Not trying to be a smartarse here, but my experience with the 300BLK and subs was about the same using 208gr A max and 220 SMK.
Because you have to get so close to the animals (due to the rainbow trajectory) I would generally head shoot them or when these shots didn't present themselves I'd go for both shoulders.
Personally I wouldn't let that one experience put you off.
Using subs for me was more about my hearing and the dogs comfort. If you are expecting supersonic results you will need to spend some $$ and use the Lehighs.
Jesus that one looks brutal...
Attachment 160911
A lot of it is marketing hype from the ammo manufacturers, Nosler said the same thing as Hornady when they first bought out the subsonic 220gr BT and they weren’t any better than the 208gr A-max, but the thing with the A-max was they good for head shots 1/4 MOA in my rifle and good out to 250m no worries.Quote:
Originally Posted by MB
Best advice i could offer is shoot it from 25 to 200 yards to learn the trajectory. Over that distance my 38/55 drops 45 inches from bore line. With a 100 yards zero it will put a round into a 6 inch diameter circle anywhere between point blank and 130 yards, with a 150 zero that becomes 125 to 170 yards.
Between 200 and 205 yards it drops 3 inches so your ranging needs to be precise and your sights easy and quick to ajust.
As with 300_BLK I'm not trying to be smart but you probably would benefit from considerable range time with the rifle so the point n shoot learnt reflex that works so well with supersonics gets a bit of editing.
As to sights ajustable open are my preference even though my eye sights getting a bit dogy now. My std zero is 100 yards, and if time permits i will range and make ajustment on the slide if needed. I always aim for the biggest bit with all the plumbing as it offers the greatest chance of sucess.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 300_BLK
I don't really care about cost to be honest as I fire so few rounds every year, but I don't reload...
Maybe I will give the subsonics another go at some point and be more realistic about performance.
I'm sure that's good advice, but for Northland bush, 5 to 25 metres would be much more useful! Accuracy isn't really an issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty Henry
Yeah I’d definitely give it another go mate. Part of your challenge though is the factory ammo thing, we reloaders mustn’t forget that just willy nilly plinking is an expensive exercise with factory ammo, and that’s a problem. For the .308 subs shooter, a bag of old range brass, some Trail Boss and 100 cast lead boolits for $40 isn’t exactly in the same league as $60 for twenty factory .300 BLK ammunitions....
If there’s any way that you can sort out some loading of 30 cal lead boolits with a mate, or someone at the local club, you should give it a go.
Regarding trajectory and zero ranges, the subsonic 151gr cast lead boolit is very, very useful within 60m. I’ve got my Tikka set up such that the maximum correction to line of sight between 0m and 60m is +0.61” at 10m and -0.74” at 40m, bang on at a 60m zero.
70m is -1”, 80m is -2”, 90m is -4” and 100m is -6”.
This means that anything between me and 60m is going to get headshot. The vast majority of goats I shoot are well within 60m. On the odd occasion I might shoot past 60 m, I’ll use the rangefinder to be precise, and the holds are pretty simple.
I have had tremendous fun shooting rabbits out to 100m with this set up and once you get the hang of the holds it is remarkably productive. And of course the carcasses are perfectly clean, no blowuppery.
This thread has been very useful for us I think because it does explore the downsides and risks of subsonic shooting as well as what is becoming abundantly clear on the interweb and YouTube - the ballistic gel tests of the Hornady Sub-X that I have watched have been decidedly underwhelming, and now we have some proper commentary on the terminal performance on our game. @MB I’ve always enjoyed emailing the Hornady technicians if there’s anything that I want to know, or I want to give them some feedback on their products. Might be an interesting exercise for you, see what they say.
The purpose built Lehigh, Cutting Edge, etc subsonic mono projectiles are the way forwardQuote:
Originally Posted by tikka
The 30 cals are very quiet, the 452 are a bit louder but three times more devastating
Well back to it, but with more realistic expectations, mainly because I haven't had a chance to re-zero with supersonics.
Goat at 40 metres. Crease of neck shot with the Sub-X round. Animal went down like a sack of spuds. Good size "exit" wound and projectile recovered from just underneath the skin on the far side of the animal (the animal was at an angle, so the "exit" wound was behind the front leg).
Now I'm as confused as a gender non-binary teenager! Please don't feel the need to explain, I understand what's going on here, just can't decide between subsonics and supersonics going forward!
https://i.ibb.co/KwkmG8P/IMG-2444-2.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/Qbrjsyk/IMG-2460-2.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/C0fqv18/IMG-2471-3.jpg
before and after weight of projectile??? good to hear you got in close n picked your shot.
MD, they are are 190g projectiles. Didn't think to weight it after the event. Looks intact, although there has been a little expansion. I'm not a ballistics guy, wondered what members who are more knowledgeable in these things thought of it?
it looks plurry short,like its expanded and shed some weight,is why Ive asked. if so its all good and working right....will be leadn copper through wound channel...but that doesnt worry me at all.
Subs have got their place: Say for instance you are off on a Fallow hunt, but big billy on the track in the way and is looking at walking off alarmed around the corner: Sub into him. Job done. Sneak around corner and into the fallow at longer range: back into supersonic rounds.
Have also used out in open tussock. Have spied a big mob of reds at 800m, head off towards them and bump into a lone jap spiker just over the next crest. Sub into him. Reds didn't even stop grazing.
Requires a bit of range time but can pay dividends when it all comes together. Subs are also handy at keeping the camp's resident possum population in check: 2.5 gns of trailboss behind one x '00' buckshot round tapped into a 30 cal neck with a nylon mallet is a killer out to 20m.
