Hollow Point 22lr to reduce Ricochets

I do a bit of rabbit control on a few properties that either have stock or horses nearby or are in semi-populated areas, houses within 200m, close to roads and so on. I have been using subsonic round nose target ammo but have seen and heard a few ricochets, some even after passing clean through a rabbit.
A mate of mine has said that using hollow points will all but eliminate that problem as they tend to explode on whatever they hit first, but I'm not convinced it would make that much difference at low velocity.

I'm planning to make a hollow pointing tool to swage target ammo into hollow or flat points and give it a try as I don't like the idea of paying more for CCI HP than I do for premium target ammo.

Does anyone have any experience with hollow points being better for this? I cant use HMR or a varmint centerfire due to noise on these properties, so suppressed subsonic 22 is the only choice other than an air gun, which I am not interested in buying.

Hollow points ricochet just as bad.

There is no safe solution in .22LR. Even CCI Quite segmented will ricochet

Hollow points ricochet just the same as solids

Horses and houses as close as you mention I wouldn’t ever fire another shot there in my lifetime

The consequences are too costly

I know you say you don't want an airgun but PCP airguns are your answer, something adjustable so you can dial the power right back. They are not cheap but it's the only safe option in that situation.

Some fair points made here. I think I will stop shooting there until I sort something out. As mentioned, not worth the risk just for a few rabbits.

Any suggestions on PCP rifles to look at? Really not interested in spending 2k plus for a rabbit gun.

Z longs

Z longs or 22 shorts

I have this same issue. I have a gully that I can shoot down into with .22LR subs but that is only about third of the shots I need to make on bunnies.
Have HW95 .177, while a lovely springer, I don't shot it very well and pretty limited in range. Just putting a pellet into the lungs, so not a quick kill (bare in mind it's straight out pest control), and very unsatisfactory.
Long term a .22 cal PCP is the answer but that is pretty big $$.

Not helpful, but I've given up shooting on a couple of mate's lifestyle blocks as the areas have got more built up and become suburban. It's not just risk of ricochet etc, it's changing attitudes as well. Some new neighbours not keen on a guy wandering around after dark with a gun. I just don't need the hassle.

high velocity frangible are the answer unfortunately. i think the CCI copper is a fangible

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Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

Z longs

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These are an option but still need care. Getting harder to find though as is everything...

22 PCP will ricochet just as bad as a 22RF - I sold mine after a pellet that had killed a rabbit ended up in a house about 30 beyond the rabbit, and at over 45 degrees to its original path.

@Fssprecision makes a suppressed .410 that would solve your issues

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Originally Posted by SixtyTen

I do a bit of rabbit control on a few properties that either have stock or horses nearby or are in semi-populated areas, houses within 200m, close to roads and so on. I have been using subsonic round nose target ammo but have seen and heard a few ricochets, some even after passing clean through a rabbit.
A mate of mine has said that using hollow points will all but eliminate that problem as they tend to explode on whatever they hit first, but I'm not convinced it would make that much difference at low velocity.

I'm planning to make a hollow pointing tool to swage target ammo into hollow or flat points and give it a try as I don't like the idea of paying more for CCI HP than I do for premium target ammo.

Does anyone have any experience with hollow points being better for this? I cant use HMR or a varmint centerfire due to noise on these properties, so suppressed subsonic 22 is the only choice other than an air gun, which I am not interested in buying.

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I've always used a .410 in those situations , or you could experiment with .22-shorts (if available) Aguila Sniper does't go too-far either (big-heavy projo) or a suitable air-gun . (for a laugh you could try a paint-ball-gun with frozen-balls...nobody likes frozen-balls)

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Originally Posted by rewa

Aguila Sniper does't go too-far..nobody likes frozen-balls)

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No I'd agree with the frozen ball thing. Never been a fan
While I havent used the Aguila heavy sniper in anger, and that could well be the difference, it did ricochet when I was trying it out on a target down on a sandy river bed.
Very distinctive whirring whine
Never heard them do that as often
Hitting something soft like a rabbit would probably work.
Never shot well enough to keep using on my part

22 PCP I use 16g hades which designed to expand, can dial it back still accurate at 6 to 7 hundred fps but its same situation as with larger Cals need the speed to get the expansion so let them go 900 fsp. PCPs accuracy pisses on 22lr ( ammo is sheight) so PCP head shots no problem to 75m and quiet. Bought mine to use at the range as well, cheap option at a time where centrefire ingredients are hard to find and pricey. Some good deals are about at times, PCP become a complete science unto themselves, love it.

I've used the Z longs and they can do the ricochet thing as well. Very unnerving hearing the ziiiing off into the distance and hoping it doesn't make contact with something it shouldn't.
Was trying to fine some cci quiet segmented but they are pretty hard to find last time I looked.

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Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

Z longs or 22 shorts

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I recently bought an Artemis P15 in 22. It would be a good tool in this situation. It Shoots the JSB Hades and JSB Jumbo's at 40J (900 fps). It has a shrouded barrel and is really quiet. Regulated with 9-shot magazine and single shot adapter. It's a Chinese bullpup rifle from the Snowpeak factory that will shoot 1cm groups at 50m. Sometimes sold under the SPA name and even as a Diana Skyhawke. It recently was on offer here in The Netherlands for 740 NZD. Don't know about availability and price in NZ tho.
Attachment 208259

I use CCI segmented subs in a 22lr, a .25 PCP, and a 17 hornet with frangible projectiles for the various blocks I shoot. Of all of the projectiles, the 17 hornet has the lowest incident of ricochets (0 out of over 200 rounds). The CCI segmented subs have quite a few, and they are really noticeable as the small petals are not aerodynamic and whistle as they fly. Albeit not as far as a near complete 22lr round.

Looking at all of the recovered rounds I shoot at paper targets with a clay backstop, I can safely say that the hollow points put into .22lr rounds do 3/4 of F' all for making them frangible.

I tried some of the frangible powdered copper projectiles in a .223, subsonic couldn’t hit paper and loads as per the data were fairly erratic.
You can get the projectiles in 30 cal and 9mm as well. They might go all right in a 300 BlkOut. Obviously having to buy a whole new rifle if you don’t already have one so a solution of limited value.

Micky suggestion of the suppressed.410 is probably the most pragmatic, I have heard one firing 3” 11/16 loads, not as quiet as a .22 sub, but in that ball park of not recognisable as a gun shot that the .22 sub and air rifle can be grouped in.

everything ricochets in the 22 with subs you just get to hear it

best way to stop them is to not miss and use the animal to soak the energy out of your sub preferably long ways

its only misses that ricochet with that much energy

Played around shooting 22 subs and occasionally HVs into sand to see how they go.
The old aussie winchesters did nice little buttons while the pmc jobbies might have well been solids.
While I was quite confident that if I hit a possum or hare with the subsonics it would wreck them I would also suggest if it made it through the animal it could ricochet a little.

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Originally Posted by Bill999

everything ricochets in the 22 with subs you just get to hear it

best way to stop them is to not miss and use the animal to soak the energy out of your sub preferably long ways

its only misses that ricochet with that much energy

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Got two rabbits with one shot from my .22 using HV PowerPoint.
Didn’t even realise the second rabbit was there until it rolled over and started kicking.

And it was almost right angles to the target rabbit and 10 metres away further down the fence line.

Luckily I had a witness!

Modern .22 subs do seem to produce more ricochets, even had one on the range - went sideways out of the target frame into the bank at the side. Luckily not one of the modern ranges with no danger area, would have been a clusterfluck if it was!

I still have a reasonable amount of the old Aussie Win Powerpoint style truncated cone 40gr subsonic ammo, this was some of the best you could get from my experience if your rifle liked it. It was quite soft and could have an issue with shaving the pills in semi, but went very well in bolt guns. I'm hoarding what I do have, never get that again!

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Originally Posted by No.3

Modern .22 subs do seem to produce more ricochets, even had one on the range - went sideways out of the target frame into the bank at the side. Luckily not one of the modern ranges with no danger area, would have been a clusterfluck if it was!

I still have a reasonable amount of the old Aussie Win Powerpoint style truncated cone 40gr subsonic ammo, this was some of the best you could get from my experience if your rifle liked it. It was quite soft and could have an issue with shaving the pills in semi, but went very well in bolt guns. I'm hoarding what I do have, never get that again!

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like yourself i never ever had any problems with either WIN HV powerpoint or rabbit ammo in my M14 stirling B/a or Toz17.this absobloodylutely deadly on possums -holes you could reach into and both literally stopped rabbits in their tracks .one i remember vividly I bowled him a over kin midair as he hopped over a log .when we examined him couldnt find a bloody hole ????skinned provided the answer -a sheer fluke round entered arsehole removed part of spine and turned the boiler room into a batch of badly made raspberry jam with a lead weight in middle.yehah a classic texas heart shot which Ive never been able to repeat! yepI can see why youre hoarding those rounds ,Id do the same. my next mission-a big snarling buck jacko with a 3"12guage load-a sure cure for the reproductive urge!

As per my previous post, there is no safe solution in .22LR for ricochet prevention.

I have tested all different bullet construction in wet pack paper and firing directly down into a 200-liter drum filled with water in an effort to push projectiles to their limits and get them to over expand, and there is minimal difference in performance in terms of expansion. The only expectation to that was some old RWS that I had which did perform like a jacketed projectile, and I put it down to a softer lead.
I have a Waltz tool and can hollow point my own ammo and have put super-size hollow points into projectiles in an effort to get them to disintegrate in a rabbit. Again, minimal difference.

Safest rimfire solution is the .17HMR or .17HM2 and don't miss your target. Fast light projectiles = disintegration.
PCP .22 - stick to pellets over slugs, which will limit your range due to their BC, but as per @flock the PCP's accuracy will outshoot a .22LR every time. Pellets lose their energy very fast, so misses are less likely to cause down range damage.
PCP .177 - this is another option. Way less energy than the PCP .22, but the accuracy lets you go for head shots. I haven't seen any in NZ yet, but they are now producing .177 slugs in South Africa.

The .22LR hyper-velocity light grain ammo is better for risk of ricochet than most of the other current production ammo - down side is that it's hard to get and I've not had much luck getting a rifle to like it. It's also quite noisy but not quite as bad as the HMR and HM2 .17's.

The issue I believe is related to the speed, and not getting a complete energy dump on impact. I have seen a .22 sub literally 'bounce' back past the shooter - gave us the shits at the time as that would have been a feral wound. I've suffered a similar effect with a .177 co2 powered pistol that I have as a 'rat dispatcher' for when the damn cat brings rats into the house - doing some target shooting when I first got it shooting into the end of a 100x100 treated fence post and I ended up catching 4 of the pellets in my chest pocket before I worked out what was happening! Accurate little pellet pistol, but I don't do that (shooting into a block of wood) any more as it's just too damn dangerous!

.22 isn't the answer, solid , hollow, super sonic , sub sonic they all ricochet ,
I shot a lot around horses, vine yard infrastructure , sheep, cows and dwellings .
Only round I would ever use is a 17HMR , suppressed.
In maybe 15 - 20 k of ammo I might have had 1-2 ricochet.

I wouldn't use a .22 at all for your situation, quite unsafe and just wait till you get the Vet bill for a shot horse and the cops round for a serious chat, if you excuse the pun, horses for courses and the .22 in this situation isn't it.

I have made a hollow point tool and shot a few into wet pack newspaper. Seems to expand nicely and stopped after about 150mm.

Attachment 210198
I have been looking around for a reasonably priced PCP and options are pretty limited.
Luckily I have a couple of places to chase bunnies that are safe as houses for 22s.

In the situations you describe, it can be a .22 springer too. I have a nicely tuned HW95 thats putting out about 15 ft/lb and will do rabbits to 30 meters. Most of the PCPs you are talking about after 25+ ft/lbs or even approaching subsonic .22 with large slugs instead of pellets. Spring / gas ram springs are definitely harder to shoot though, so they're a game of stalking closer and marksmanship. The Crosman/Benjamin Nitro Piston rifles in .22 are not too bad with a bit of DIY.

Edge of the Outback's recent vid using his .22 pcp on bunny control out to a hundy is pure poetry in motion:thumbsup:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHf0vd3omAo&t=321s

That scope of full cheat mode! I want one!

I have a star die (like a blank making die) that I put a tooth pattern on my swaged bullets. I'll give that a go and see if it stops the bounce and keeps decent accuracy. It may help.?