Subsonic 22 ammo suggestions .

Fired off a box of 50 winchester 40grain subsonics yesterday. Looking at them before firing noticed the hollow in the projectiles were very inconsistant. Had at least half a dozen that went supersonic upon firing. Winchester have always had a good reputation for knockdown power but quality control looks lacking .Micky Duck used to swear by the 42 grain subsonics but are they as good as they used to be ?. Have used CCI subs and although they shot well and are consistant , do they kill as well as winchester ?. Not chasing tackdriving accuracy just a good subsonic hunting round for rabbits ,possums and the odd handy wallaby .Recommendations please

I have good success with the CCI subs out to 90 yards. Seems to do the job if they go where they need to

CCI cycles well in my Ruger 10/22, shoots consistent and kills fairly well. Had the same issue as you with Winchester. Wasn't confident on groupings.
I grab the 500 box of CCI these days.

Switched to Aguilas a while back when the CCIs weren't available. Found them quite good. I used to have problems with the odd CCI going super, had no such issues with the aguilas.

+ 1 for Aguila in bolt action Toz..consistent, accurate, hit hard, no supers so far. Have not put them thru an auto.

The American Winchester .22lr ammo is rubbish in comparison to the Aussie (factory closed) made stuff. The 42gr subs from Aussie use to be great.
I have had all manner of issues with the American stuff, fliers, fail to fire, failure to extract (cause by variable rim thickness), massive variation in velocity (200+ FPS variation from one packet).

I changed to CCI 40gr HP. Very accurate and no issues over a 1000 or so rounds so far. Brought a bulk amount so I've settled on it.

aguila uses dupont powder, its filthy stuff in a semi

As above American Winchester not nearly as good as the Aussie stufff was....which is a shame cos it was bloody good.
Cci seems consistent but expansion and terminal effect of the subs is not in the same league as the Aussie Win.
Cci do do a segmented sub and that promises to do what the 42gr Winny did but I have not had any to try as yet.

Is all winchester ammo made in the us these days ?

Yep I run CCI in my JW15 kills rabbits what else does it need to do?

The 42gr Winchester seems to be a touch better than the 40gr stuff. Shoots half the group size in a cz457.
That 40gr stuff that we used was terrible. 20,000 rounds of it. Some packets the whole lot had wax filling the hollow point and would gum up mags after a brick or so. Not to mention how many went supersonic. Accuracy was very poor.
The CCI stuff seems to go alright as does the fiocchi subbies. The later does have a little less knock down and it is noticable.

CCI Subsonic have always been good to me. I've tried a few others including various Eley products and CCI Standard (round nose subsonic), but not as consistent in my rifle which is interesting because others speak highly of them.

mate...dont you remember what we used to do???? get 3" nail and give nose cavity a wee twirl to open it up a bit more......Ive done heaps but havent gone back out to try it LOL..... it worked for us back in 80s n early 90s so cant see why it wont now.

40gr CCI subs are good.
The 45gr "suppressor " are even better.
I no longer use winchester, it's not as good as it used to be.

Hi I use 22 subs a lot for pest control , only use cci now, in 3 different riffles , bolt action n semi , recycles fine very consistent, cleaner, does the job

Winchester 40 and 42 has turned to crap, cases with ripples, inconsistent velocities and dirty. Shame because I found it killed better than CCI but I am back to CCI now. Eley subsonic is very accurate if a little more pricey.

I made this up out of a 22 off cut, the top part of a lee 223 die that was stuffed. Works Well

Hollow points, opening up and increase depth, works well
Attachment 201408

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Originally Posted by flock

I made this up out of a 22 off cut, the top part of a lee 223 die that was stuffed. Works Well

Hollow points, opening up and increase depth, works well
Attachment 201408

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Do you just tap the point of the 223 rod into the tip of the 22 bullet? Or what?

Yep gently with a hammer, place bottom of bullet on a offcut off of 4by2 if the percussion part worries you, done heaps no worries. Would have loved a Walse die set up https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bc76Qa54U6Y but to hard to get into NZ

I just got given 2 pkts of USA 40gr .22 lr and went down to a nice sheltered spot and did 60m target.
Failed miseraby. No group under 2inchs, 2 shots of ten were in bull rest floating outs side edge of a 2inch circle.
Threw in 5 aussie 42gr for comparison.
5 shots sub inch all in kill zone.
Looks like got a full packet of winchester aussie ammo to find a replacement brand. Aarrrgggh

I will never buy Winchester products again after a crap batch of primers pitted my 308win bolt head. :omg:

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Originally Posted by Shearer

I will never buy Winchester products again after a crap batch of primers pitted my 308win bolt head. :omg:

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I had some Winchester M22 target/plinking shit a few years ago.lots of lose projectiles and squib loads. Took it with me when I moved house as to busy to take it to plod for distruction. Forgot it was fuckt and ended up having to take 6 inches off my 22. Other Winchester subs wouldn't eject ....... Their centre fires ok but their 22lr's been shit for a while.

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Originally Posted by Shearer

I will never buy Winchester products again after a crap batch of primers pitted my 308win bolt head. :omg:

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think thats bad, i bought some 7mmRM cases and 4 were unusable out of 50 brand new

Has anyone tried the RWS stuff that reloaders sells.

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Originally Posted by Nathanfish

Has anyone tried the RWS stuff that reloaders sells.

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Have used RWS primers for last 25 years, never had a problem with them.

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Originally Posted by flock

I made this up out of a 22 off cut, the top part of a lee 223 die that was stuffed. Works Well

Hollow points, opening up and increase depth, works well
Attachment 201408

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I did exactly what you did except I squeeze them up in a vice. I fired a bunch of standard velocity and subs down the range last year and the standard velocity RWS solids I turned into HP's shot the best out of all of them in two different BRNO's.
My HP plug is a little larger that the Aussie Win Subs - and they're getting up there.

Takes a little while to do them, but worth it IMO :)

RWS Club shoot well in my brno. But they are a solid. I did this in a drill press using a bolt and the adjustable stop to get this result. Still to test for accuracy and kill improvement.

Attachment 214447Attachment 214448

Yip the Winchester subs have gone to the dogs, misfires, hard extractions, poor and very inconsistent groups and group sizes was really starting to think it was me. Fortunately I had a brick I bought many moons ago of the Aussie made stuff so I am now working through that. The recent brick I bought only creates a heightened level of frustration and makes the small game shy, but not dead. Will track down some of the Aquila or CCI stuff it sounds good.

'Oldbloke' - that tool of yours does a really nice 'flat point' - remarkably simple too.

The one I made was like 'Flock's', except my HP plunger is made from a brass bolt that slides in the barrel rifling. I just squeeze them up until the plunger stops moving forward because it's flush with the barrel - they all come out the same.
I started doing that because I was getting lousy accuracy with a lot of what I had, so I measured them (micrometer) and found some quite a bit undersize - so the hollow pointing was designed as much as anything to increase the diameter to chamber diameter (.225") - and it did that.
What I did find was that altering the bullet profile did nothing in the most part - I was getting the same size groups after the process as I was prior - all I was getting was a bigger hollow point.
There was some improvement with some brands - it did tighten up some CAC high velocities I had for over forty years which were already HP's.
Every few years I'd bankrupt myself stocking up - and I still have a lot of stuff from back yonder.

I think I started all that because I bought a couple of bricks of Aussie 40gr subs (Wincheter) and was a bit disappointed with accuracy - they didn't improve. But, within their limitations they perform in the guns fine and kill rabbits very well - just gotta be closer.

Result of all that just showed an innacurate bullet is still innacurate regardless of what it looks like.

I should point out I had no feeding problems in the BRNO's changing the bullet profile - but an auto might be different ?

In case anyone needed convincing that the USA winchester was crap: a mate came round yesterday to sight in his recently purchased second hand 10/22. He brought a couple of packets of usa win 40gr subs. The groups weren't terrible but it wasnt cycling well with one or two jams per mag. The wax was odd and very gummy which I reckon most of the problem. The action needed a bit of a clean but still... I grabbed some of my cci subs and it ran beautifully and groups tightened up a lot.

Mate stopped at gun city on the way home and totally sold out of cci.

Same here. CCI Standard speed any day.

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Originally Posted by Dama dama

Mate stopped at gun city on the way home and totally sold out of cci.

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Visit both GC in Auckland today for some CCI sub and both had none
I ended up picking these up from their competitor

I was told Norma is as good as CCI
time will tell.

Attachment 218125

A few months ago I bought a new Ruger bolt action. Tried out every type of ammo I had and bought others, all subs . US Winchester were the worst for accuracy and going supersonic at times. The best for me was fiocchi followed by selliers and bellott. Don't know if I spelt that right. My mate sold his rifles and had 6 boxes of Aussie made Winchester which shot as good as the fiocchi. Cci shot 3rd best. Had some PMC zapper (supersonic)which shot exceptionally well but can't get them now. Not sure on killing ability yet.

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Originally Posted by Oldbloke

RWS Club shoot well in my brno. But they are a solid. I did this in a drill press using a bolt and the adjustable stop to get this result. Still to test for accuracy and kill improvement.

Attachment 214447Attachment 214448

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Question how did they work, love to know as experimenting with a die hollow point set up made here in NZ

Attachment 253036

I just noticed that Aguila do a .22LR 60gn subsonic - anyone tried those? Not particularly cheap, but I imagine it might carry a fair bit more energy out to 100m. Though not sure the rabbit would care...

just have to be lucky to stabilise, They are very long. I did a very small trial several years back. it was a bit windy so hard to pick. relatively shit 30 or 40m out but thought what they hay and tried 70. i think i had the start of a reasonable group but the wind came up again and I gave up for the day. never got back to try it and used most of what was left up testing silencers i made.
I will say they did have a very pronounced whining ricochet off the ground. And yes I reckon they would do some damage especially if they started tumbling

Hi bjp to use the 60grain Agulia sub. one needs to have a fast twist barrel ..i found one on t/me Volquartsen 1 /10 or 1/8 twist for a 10/22 [usual twist is 1/16 ]
i didnt want to use it on a semi thinking the heavy weight might have problems with it firing out of battery so matted it to a bolt action
and after correcting a miss alignment with the thread adaptor that was Volquartsen factory fitted this now shoots very well @ 75m
very Quiet except for the thud of the impact Cheers

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Originally Posted by bjp

I just noticed that Aguila do a .22LR 60gn subsonic - anyone tried those? Not particularly cheap, but I imagine it might carry a fair bit more energy out to 100m. Though not sure the rabbit would care...

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Don't cycle in the 10/22's I've tried, are as accurate as most 22LR rounds, so out of a bolt could be a go if the rifle itself likes it?

Sellier & Bellot far more consistent than anything else.
And thats tested across a Garmin C1 chrono.

They also smack harder than anything else I've tried.