Thread: Tell 'em they're dreaming . . . Govt announces new policy, predator free by 2050

Originally Posted by Friwi

Let them eradicate the predators on Stewart island first without killing the kiwis, then we ll see how valid their strategy is for the two main islands.

geeez just make us the guinea pigs! got the same problem with reinvasion, boats coming over from bluff fishing, container ships waiting for a berth in bluff that are close to shore, deep sea trawlers taking shelter and cruise ships. all of the above have rats on them and come withen 500m of shore. not to mention the ongoing costs of running a quarantine within a habitated area, rat detecting dogs at ferry and plane... the list goes on

Originally Posted by EeeBees

@WallyR, re hedgehogs...they especially like canned cat food according to one person I know...they also eat ground laying birds' eggs...scabby mongrels...

In the "old days" when the rabbits were in plague numbers, my father shot thousands of them, and also poisoned them with phosphorus laced jam...can you imagine that happening today...?? they were that thick that cabbage trees were completely debarked up as high as a rabbit could get its teeth...

Talking to a young lad the other day about the possums when they were big in numbers...my brother and I shot 80 out of one big old kanuka tree...the boy stated he thought that was a mistake...I said, well, you had to be there, I guess...

Ta mate - have been 'conversing' with an interested party on another FB post (no credits for the other site), and did say that 'hogs eat eggs, ground nesting bird chicks, lizards etc.. It appears that ol' Hedgy has quite a bit of support in the supposedly 'educated' halls of DOC. Go figure.

@timattalon
Funny that eh. Although possum are mainly vegan, others have posted elsewhere that they're not above adding the odd egg or two to their diet.

A thought for us all.
When the Moa disappeared, there were no multi-level leaf browsers about, until the introduction of deer and the release of possum to the wild after failed fur industry breeders.
Native trees had adapted to being browsed as part of the tree's development - encouraging rapid growth during the early months/years, to take the leaves above Moa feeding height.
So perhaps not including possum (who leaf browse higher than Moa could reach), is an oversight - or not, as 1080 poison has been 'blanket bombed' to these two target leaf browsers (deer and possum), but conveniently for the manufacturers, gets altered to mice, rats and other ground dwellers (tahr, chamois, goats and deer), who are then targeted for 1080 drops. Not sure if DOC have done definitive studies on secondary and tertiary poisoning of wildlife that ingests insects and parts of poisoned carcasses, such as carrion eaters and omnivores. Most predators prefer their meat fresh, so 1080 is missing rats, stoat, ferret and weasel.
Just a 'bee in my bonnet' I have about poisoning in such an uncontrolled manner - my other 'bee in my bonnet' is about our supposedly 'pristine, wild bush', flooded with 1080 from the air and the expected 'life' of airdropped poison being active for 10-14 days.
Enough to have kill rates on other species for which the drop was not targeted - native birds and small animals for example.
Stopping here before I get really started.

So - in this plan they will ban all domestic keeping of rats, mice, stoats, ferrets, cats and rabbits?

I think we are all aware that the true European feral rabbit only occurs in brown with some white colouring...how many rabbits have you disposed of that are black, white, grey...? Little Miss Snotrag can't look after her pet anymore so it's let to roam free..

And wtf, I bet there is no country with zero rats. I bet even the bases in Antartica have them.

What a joke.


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Ok some boarders need to be set here Dougie.........RABBITS ARE NOT PESTS !!!!!!........they are sport: thumbsup:

sounds like a job for "the expendables", too big for chuck norris on his own

Originally Posted by WallyR

While 'uneducated' city dwellers continue to release part-grown cats into the bush (can't be bothered re-homing the cat, and other self serving excuses), cat predation of smaller birds and native wildlife will continue.
Rats are one of the most adaptable of all introduced predatory species, so look for heavy 'bombing' of 1080 poison in most of the favored hunting areas.
Stoats and ferrets are smart animals - difficult to find, hard to reduce numbers unless they partake of fresh poisoned carcasses.
Hedgehogs - a new one to me. Didn't know they ate meat of any kind.
Introduced bird species (larger breeds), contribute as much to the decline of native species as any of the above.
No study has been carried out - to my knowledge - on secondary, tertiary and quadrenary poison kills using 1080.
DOC and PCNZ need to clearly indicate through valid studies, that these latter stages of poisoning DO NOT CONTRIBTE to a reduction in the omnivorous native species - Weka, Kea, etc.
My 2c worth.

Good 2cents worth Wally
Cats are always a problem for me round holiday time - people seem to drop them off at the roadside picnic area just before the turn off to the beach - cats should be high on the PFNZ hit list - but it is a sensitive subject as most people have a cat sitting on their knee at night
People also seem to be fascinated by hogs around their back yard - the bastards can eat meat, bones, eggs, chicks, invertebrates - if you don’t like skinning possums - just leave it for the hog to clean it out for you
Hedgehog Skull
If you have this shit on your lawn - you have hogs in your garden - trap the bastards
Hedgehog photo - Erinaceus europaeus - A23201 | ARKive
hog eating a possum
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtQUaFotDnM
not much left of this one

It's very difficult to bother arguing with so many people who are wrong about so many things, so you're all just going to have to take my word for it.


However a point to note perhaps ought to be that the focus of the previous/existing Predator Free Trust was largely to get communities engaged in predator control, the "army of volunteers" trapping and whatnot, and also research into predator behaviour (see ZIP), so the immediate negative response of JERKS MORE 1080 RAGHR BLOO BLOO BLOO is probably unjustified

True gimp, but what's wrong with setting reasonable goals? Recently the govt said they would reduce reoffending by 25% by 2017...and that's where it ended. What's the actual plan here? Has their even been sufficient research done to know exactly how many pests we are dealing with and in what areas?


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Originally Posted by Dougie

True gimp, but what's wrong with setting reasonable goals? Recently the govt said they would reduce reoffending by 25% by 2017...and that's where it ended. What's the actual plan here? Has their even been sufficient research done to know exactly how many pests we are dealing with and in what areas?

It's all just headline-grabbing Trumpisms. "We'll build a wall", "We'll kill all the terrorists". Wonderful ideas that voters will love, with no plan on how to go about it, or the unintended consequences.


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Originally Posted by Dougie

True gimp, but what's wrong with setting reasonable goals? Recently the govt said they would reduce reoffending by 25% by 2017...and that's where it ended. What's the actual plan here? Has their even been sufficient research done to know exactly how many pests we are dealing with and in what areas?


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They have stated goals for 2020 and 2025 which seem relatively reasonable

2020 goals
• Develop a collaborative predator control strategy.
• Another 175,000 hectares in addition to the current
1 million hectares on conservation land and 7 million
hectares led by OSPRI are under some form of control.
• Five projects supported by PFNZ are making progress,
and sharing lessons.
• PFNZ and DOC will tackle larger scale operations.
• Collaborative results will show social and economic benefits.
• PFNZ will foster community participation in local
predator control activities.
2025 goals
• Increase by 1 million hectares the areas of New Zealand
where predators are suppressed.
• Demonstrate predator removal in areas of mainland New
Zealand of 20,000 hectares.
• Remove all mammalian predators from New Zealand’s
offshore island nature reserves.
• Develop science solutions that remove at least one small
mammal predator from the New Zealand mainland.

There is all kinds of monitoring of pest numbers that goes on. The question "how many" is the wrong question, and I wish they'd stop using absolute numbers like "25,000,000" because they're not measurable or accurate, but they're easier for people to take in than concepts like "relative abundance", because, as demonstrated by this forum's response to this, reading comprehension isn't a common skill

A little consideration and an open mind instead of a knee-jerk-burst-into-tears reaction at the idea of someone investing a relatively small amount of money in terms of government spending into trying to preserve our natural heritage might be a good idea

Playing the devils advocate... If they do succeed with a genetic change and it's allowed to go ahead, why not! They stated that technologies are still being developed and my crystal ball doesn't work!

Lets keep this discussion tidy

Im all for our own Circulus in probando (Ie: circular logic) around our thoughts on pest control and its a reasonable approach at times except in addition with politics


We have a no politics rule here.

No shit they are a pest Mauser 308, I am living in Central, more rabbits than sheep and people combined.......my comment to Dougie was tongue in cheek

@time out
Thanks mate - awesome links. Ol' hedgehog's on my 'hit list'. @7mmsaum
When the original post went up, it talked about 'Gov't plans' - politics already on the table. @viper
Can I come down for a 'holiday', and help reduce your stress levels about the 'population imbalance'? @mauser 308
Can you post a vid of your 'outstanding driving skills'?
Cheers all - as the posters on this subject hunt, fish and shoot (my bones are over the climbing, falling and chills), I guess we have issues with the 'how', 'when' and 'what' of the Control Council.
Another thought - the GAC have been formed, are 'studying' the options for game herd management but one of the Council members (DOC), continues to use their current, outdated methodologies (ever hear of 'The Law of Diminishing Returns on Investment') with willing assistance of WARO operators, who conveniently ignore territory boundaries, when the above 'law' kicks in. If Predator Control are expecting wholesale support of their objectives, some of the fiercest opponents for cat regulation will be breeders and cat owners/lovers, to have cats taken off the list. I truly hope that, with the help of members of this, and other forums here, that some at least of the goals will be approached, and the knowledge/experience/practical advice freely given here, is utilized by the new Council.

Wow interesting news Mauser, I moved to Cromwell from KatiKati about 4 months ago ( my wife thinks we moved here for the work,......I came for the rabbits. Numbers in Kati were really low but sounds like things are on the move with Rabbit numbers up there. I was kinda dreading my first central winter but so far it's been very mild. I spoke to a guy who was shooting rabbits for meat and he was saying that some of the Does are pregnant which is he thought very unusual and wonders if numbers aren't going to explode down here come spring......bring it on ( not good for the farmers )