Thread: Tell 'em they're dreaming . . . Govt announces new policy, predator free by 2050

Roger that, thanks for the info @gimp


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Originally Posted by stretch

It's all just headline-grabbing Trumpisms. "We'll build a wall", "We'll kill all the terrorists". Wonderful ideas that voters will love, with no plan on how to go about it, or the unintended consequences.


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The way I see it, @stretch, is what we, you know, me, them, you, us and a dog named Boo will do...get out there and do it ourselves...as many of us have been doing for many years...all the pontificating and bombastic wankerism does not protect anything...except someone's backside...

Originally Posted by Mauser308

Not really my bad driving skills to be fair, I was driving on top of a little rise and the little rabbit hole 1m down the side actually wasn't a little hole. There was a major highway intersection with about 6 interlinking burrow access tunnels running off from it, when I had a closer look I could damn near see straight through the hill...

The front wheel of the ute just pushed the lid to the cavern in which gave me a hell of a fright as it bounced back up the other side. I swear it was nothing but flat grass in front of me...

ah, you encountered an infamous warren...works of art

Just watching the latest episode from Fieldsports Britain where David states the eradication of predators in New Zealand...he quotes the figure of 25,000,000 native birds are killed by predators a year in this country...

The Government's announced an ambitious target to make New Zealand predator-free by 2050.
Prime Minister John Key made the announcement at Wellington's ecosantuary Zealandia on Monday afternoon.
He says the introduces pets such as stoats, rats and possums cost the economy and primary sector around $3.3 billion a year.
"Rats, possums and stoats kill 25 million of our native birds every year, and prey on other native species such as lizards, and along with the rest of our environment, we must do more to protect them," Mr Key says.
The Government will invest $28 million in a joint-venture company called Predator Free New Zealand in a public-private partnership.
The money is on top of the $60 to $80 million already put into pest control by the Government each year, as well as local government and the private sector. (Quoted form the OP)

All well and fine to sayt lets get rid of all the predators. Here is 80million and we will top it off with another $28 million.....

How about we use that money to take real predators......Theives, scum, rapists, murderers and criminal enterprise...Yes our biodiversity is stuffed, And only a limit to how much we can repair the damage before we make it worse. But how about fixing things that actually need fixing......Under resourced Police officers, and more of them.....Medical budgets, I can think of so much more that can be done and the money has to come from someones budget...Where did they take it from? That is what is really scary. The bureaucrats in charge have not idea what is happening so they let a well intentioned tree hugger make the call, and we all know which road is paved with good intentions....

NB I would like to see it paved with the souls of good intentioned tree huggers and scum....

Originally Posted by gimp

They have stated goals for 2020 and 2025 which seem relatively reasonable



There is all kinds of monitoring of pest numbers that goes on. The question "how many" is the wrong question, and I wish they'd stop using absolute numbers like "25,000,000" because they're not measurable or accurate, but they're easier for people to take in than concepts like "relative abundance", because, as demonstrated by this forum's response to this, reading comprehension isn't a common skill

A little consideration and an open mind instead of a knee-jerk-burst-into-tears reaction at the idea of someone investing a relatively small amount of money in terms of government spending into trying to preserve our natural heritage might be a good idea

This isnt the GIMP I knew, what have you done with the cynical young aspiring soldier/boxer. Ahhaaa. .. DOC has got you under their spell, given you a side interest (Ladeeeees) and lured you in to using management speak, using long words and wasteful spending as all Govt Depts do, mine included plus saving NZ's natural heritage will do us all out of a lot of hunting opportunities, leaving us all to look for what little birdlife remains after by-kill decimates an '"acceptable percentage"

Originally Posted by Ernie

This isnt the GIMP I knew, what have you done with the cynical young aspiring soldier/boxer. Ahhaaa. .. DOC has got you under their spell, given you a side interest (Ladeeeees) and lured you in to using management speak, using long words and wasteful spending as all Govt Depts do, mine included plus saving NZ's natural heritage will do us all out of a lot of hunting opportunities, leaving us all to look for what little birdlife remains after by-kill decimates an '"acceptable percentage"

Not at all, I just actually have an open mind and don't approach things with a pre-conceived view. I'm gonna have to talk to you about this, you've been listening to the wrong people man


Besides which the focus of the trust that this new initiative is based on has largely been community based trapping programs and whatnot, not 1080.

Also you'd think the anti-1080 people would be keen on actually eradicating possums/rats/stoats or finding other methods to suppress them so we don't have to use it any more, which is one of the stated aims of this new programme

I know little about 1080, so went to google to find out more. There is very little info on the stuff that's backed up with science. Same info repeated over and over. I avoided the ban it /best thing sine sliced bread sites. NZ use 80% of the stuff so not many studies have been done elsewhere. In one paper it states possible links with cancer but no specific testing has been done. It can last for months in a carcass in cold conditions. I hope a lot of this money is going to find a alternative, as I can see agent orange type thing here in future.

Originally Posted by chindit

There is very little info on the stuff that's backed up with science.

What do you want to know?

Originally Posted by chindit

It can last for months in a carcass in cold conditions.

Yes, and DOC (and presumably other agencies, I don't know what OSPRI etc do) conduct bait and carcass monitoring after drops to monitor decay/breakdown of baits and carcasses in worst-case climatic areas inside treatment areas, to determine the end of caution periods.

@gimp
By it's own admission, DOC have stated that 1080 has a toxicity life if '10-14' days under normal temperature conditions. Interesting to see that they are admitting to toxicity lasting longer under cooler temperature conditions. So - IMO - if toxicity lasts longer than 10-14 days, does this not increase the opportunity for carrion eaters, insects (flies, maggots, etc.) and omnivorous birds/animals to ingest dangerous levels (read fatal), amounts of 1080? Since kiwi and other native/introduced birds/animals eat various forms of 'possibly' infected insects/carcasses of 1080 kill, wouldn't this 'partially explain' the increase in the endangered species list of NZ native species? I'm quite happy for introduced species to be reduced by this method, but I also feel that those potentially 'money making' species, such as red, sika, sambar, tahr, wapiti, chamois - among others - are being taken 'out of control' from control of groups like the Fiordland Wapiti Management group, GAC and similar supposedly NGO groups, whose function is to manage the various deer/alpine species.
It seems that Gov't itself has so many inputs from various groups, including entrenched philosophy DOC.
It's time for a review of how predators, native, introduced and 'cultivated' farming can be EFFECTIVELY managed, to satisfy the various aims of the - sometimes - conflicting aims of the various groups.
I'm of the opinion that Gov't should be 'managing' the process, procedures and potential conflicts, to give the 'optional' balance of aims.
If the Predator Control Group - assuming that hunter, self-educated predator practitioners and rewarding (bounty anyone?) demonstrations of predator control - are rewarded, then they'll have taken a giant step forward to achieving their aims.

Originally Posted by Kscott

I wonder how many countries in the world are rat free ?

Parts of some - Alberta has been fighting rats since 1950 - they set up a rat free zone 29km wide and 600km long along their border with Saskatchewan and despite some small incursions - it remains intact today
Climate and population in the area is a bit different to NZ - Norway rats are unique because they must live with people or within their buildings. They cannot survive in natural areas and cannot overwinter in cultivated fields in Canada.
Amazing that it could be done and even more amazing that it can be maintained - they don’t even have 1080

http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/agdex3441

Another problem that arose with the island... All rats could be gone off public land, if you still have rats on your 300 acre bush block do you have to pay to remove them??

Originally Posted by time out

Parts of some - Alberta has been fighting rats since 1950 - they set up a rat free zone 29km wide and 600km long along their border with Saskatchewan and despite some small incursions - it remains intact today

That's my point, an area 29km wide by 600km isn't that big when compared to an entire country, with open coastline and numerous entry ports. NZ coastline runs for over 15,000km.

The Govt has taken the concept of some ideals working well in a small, isolated environment like an island, and are planning on spending more public money on an ideology that can't work.

gimp gimp gimp, sigh.

I was talking with one of the doc field bosses the other day and rats came up. Can you, without googling it tell me, cause this rooster couldn't. What is the gestation period for a rat and how long before they are impregnated after dropping. I maintain if you are trying to kill something you should at an absolute minimum know that.
Rabbits are 28 days and pregnant within 12 hours of dropping.
Does doc have a proper pest management plan in place? No. Maybe in some small areas, but even then I have my doubts after working beside them. Would a proper plan make any difference? Fuck YES. Is the bullshit in doc so thick that they don't think straight? You answer...

I was at a meeting the other day and the OSPRI boss rooster for the southern area was there, busy telling me how I was totally wrong on the cost to doc of 1080 operations. The dickhead didn't realize that is a simple OIA, by the way that was $59.50 per hectare for the 2013/14 season
https://wrant.wordpress.com/2015/10/...ealand-part-2/

However gimp I also know of some damning evidence that hopefully in the very near future can be made public. Oh, and a lot of it is docs own research.

Originally Posted by viper

Wow interesting news Mauser, I moved to Cromwell from KatiKati about 4 months ago ( my wife thinks we moved here for the work,......I came for the rabbits. Numbers in Kati were really low but sounds like things are on the move with Rabbit numbers up there. I was kinda dreading my first central winter but so far it's been very mild. I spoke to a guy who was shooting rabbits for meat and he was saying that some of the Does are pregnant which is he thought very unusual and wonders if numbers aren't going to explode down here come spring......bring it on ( not good for the farmers )

No, they are about bang on time, start seeing young ones running around in August. That is in fact an age thing, namely the old bastard doesn't realise he's getting old and time is slipping away on him.