thermal for hunting light shy rabbits and hares ?

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Originally Posted by MB

Since no one else has replied, I ended up buying the Guide IR510x 25mm from Marine Deals for a pretty good price. Happy with performance.

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Funily enough I just bought the guide ir510 50mm ex demo for a good price too.
Can't wait to get out and test it.

I trialed it side by side with several other units and this appeared to give the best performance for $ value, very similar spec to the base line pulsar helion but $1000 cheaper. The difference was so small I could not justify the extra $1000.
I can also see why the axion key has been a bit of a flop the performance difference is like chalk and cheese

A sack of pindone would be the cheapest option

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Originally Posted by Bill999

A sack of pindone would be the cheapest option

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maybe as a drastic measure but then there is the issue of secondary poisoning of anything that eats the dead rabbits like native birds of prey (or at least so I'm told) happy to be corrected :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by dannyb

maybe as a drastic measure but then there is the issue of secondary poisoning of anything that eats the dead rabbits like native birds of prey (or at least so I'm told) happy to be corrected :thumbsup:

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No secondary poisoning - unless they eat the stomach contents that was just been eaten by the target species

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Originally Posted by Sarvo

No secondary poisoning - unless they eat the stomach contents that was just been eaten by the target species

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ok I was told otherwise but that's good to know, let's face it shooting them is much more satisfying :thumbsup: but I can understand if numbers are out of control how responsible poisoning would be considered a viable and attractive option

Plenty of studies out there supporting secondary poisoning with pindone.
Luck is on the side of the hawks and falcons, as they are not as susceptible to the poison as rabbits.

A friend has just pulled up all of the studies, as her neighbors are getting pindone laced carrot baits dropped next to her horse paddocks, and she wanted to know the risks.

Hares dont eat Pindone.

Poison in no fun!

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Originally Posted by quentin

Plenty of studies out there supporting secondary poisoning with pindone.
Luck is on the side of the hawks and falcons, as they are not as susceptible to the poison as rabbits.

A friend has just pulled up all of the studies, as her neighbors are getting pindone laced carrot baits dropped next to her horse paddocks, and she wanted to know the risks.

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What do "you" determine as "secondary poisoning" ??
Horse eating bait laid for Rabbits is not

I class (IMHO) "secondary poisoning" as when a dog or cat eats the dead Rabbit
Aka -1080 - that does "secondary poisoning" and dog/cat will die

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Originally Posted by headcase

Hares dont eat Pindone.

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Prob cause they not still long enough to eat it :-)
I did wonder that and not surprised
Seems to work on the Rabbits - neighbor cleaned his immediate area up -

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Originally Posted by Sarvo

What do "you" determine as "secondary poisoning" ??
Horse eating bait laid for Rabbits is not

I class (IMHO) "secondary poisoning" as when a dog or cat eats the dead Rabbit
Aka -1080 - that does "secondary poisoning" and dog/cat will die

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The horses eating the baits will not be secondary poisoning obviously, but she still got all of the studies to determine what the risk was to her rather expensive livestock. Those studies went into detail on how the poisons worked, secondary poisoning risks, and how they compared to 1080.

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Originally Posted by quentin

The horses eating the baits will not be secondary poisoning obviously, but she still got all of the studies to determine what the risk was to her rather expensive livestock. Those studies went into detail on how the poisons worked, secondary poisoning risks, and how they compared to 1080.

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if you have links to the info be interested to read - I am always accepting to be proven wrong - its how we learn or perhaps "used to" learn :-)

Here's the one she sent me with the most detail.
https://shooting-nz.s3.ap-southeast-...%20%281%29.pdf

And a summary one from it's use in Australia.
Pindone Rabbit-Baiting: Secondary Poisoning of Wildlife

And there were a few more printed out too.

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Originally Posted by quentin

Here's the one she sent me with the most detail.
https://shooting-nz.s3.ap-southeast-...%20%281%29.pdf

And a summary one from it's use in Australia.
Pindone Rabbit-Baiting: Secondary Poisoning of Wildlife

And there were a few more printed out too.

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Interesting reading
I do find having 1080 and Pindone in the same report somewhat surprising
Again I may be misled - but those 2 poisons are so different in all aspects

This conclusion in this report is similar to my belief - yes a wild hungry scavenging Dog - could eventually circum to Pindone poison
But a domestic animal or farmed animal - I very much doubt
But the poison is not only confined to the gut as I thought - liver and other fattie tissue zones also - but I doubt in amounts that would worry again "domestic" stock/animals

This said in LandCare report - I will stick with

"The estimated high secondary risk to dogs from feeding on gut contents, liver and/or fat of
pindone poisoned rabbits is supported by research showing mortality of dogs fed over
multiple days on the carcasses that had died of pindone poisoning.
While we found no confirmed instances of pindone poisoning in New Zealand dogs, there are numerous reports of anticoagulant poisoning and
successful veterinary treatment in domestic dogs where clinical differentiation of the
causative anticoagulant compound (including rodenticides) and confirmation of the exposure
source was not undertaken. Thus instances of secondary pindone poisoning in dogs,
particularly in farm dogs with access to rabbit carcasses, cannot be discounted"

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Originally Posted by Sarvo

Interesting reading
I do find having 1080 and Pindone in the same report somewhat surprising
Again I may be misled - but those 2 poisons are so different in all aspects

This conclusion in this report is similar to my belief - yes a wild hungry scavenging Dog - could eventually circum to Pindone poison
But a domestic animal or farmed animal - I very much doubt
But the poison is not only confined to the gut as I thought - liver and other fattie tissue zones also - but I doubt in amounts that would worry again "domestic" stock/animals

This said in LandCare report - I will stick with

"The estimated high secondary risk to dogs from feeding on gut contents, liver and/or fat of
pindone poisoned rabbits is supported by research showing mortality of dogs fed over
multiple days on the carcasses that had died of pindone poisoning.
While we found no confirmed instances of pindone poisoning in New Zealand dogs, there are numerous reports of anticoagulant poisoning and
successful veterinary treatment in domestic dogs where clinical differentiation of the
causative anticoagulant compound (including rodenticides) and confirmation of the exposure
source was not undertaken. Thus instances of secondary pindone poisoning in dogs,
particularly in farm dogs with access to rabbit carcasses, cannot be discounted"

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You forgot to highlight the finding.