**New discovery, Legal access!?**

okay so I'm quite new to hunting so please forgive how dumb I sound/ really am...

So I have only been hunting road access blocks because I assumed farmers land was farmers land, and wanted to respect that.... I have only looked on DOC website for hunting areas because of this.

I recently had a friend over and he told me about legal access? apparently you can legally walk in the purple zones seen on an app called "pocket maps" to access some blocks.

This opens up a few blocks to me that I thought were land locked.

Just confirming this is correct before I get shot by an angry farmer. What are the rules? will farmers still get angry? should I be careful or embrace my new discovered rights and get after it?

Any info will be a big help.

Thanks

I'd suggest calling the farmer regardless of right, might even mean they let you through and easier part of the farm to get to doc land etc, a small gift of appreciation is generally well received if that be the case

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Originally Posted by distant stalker

I'd suggest calling the farmer regardless of right, might even mean they let you through and easier part of the farm to get to doc land etc, a small gift of appreciation is generally well received if that be the case

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+1
We access our duck posi via a public easement which uses a farmer's raceway. Although we have 'rights', we check in each season, regain permission to cross his land and drop in some beers and salami. Nothing gets farmers off side more that someone who thinks they have 'rights' (and I grew up farming).

Most farners will respect you for asking,which will be in your favour most of the time.
Good luck.

Okay, fair enough and makes sense. I will be asking and bringing beer. So what happens if they have legal access on their land but they don't give permission or they have the legal access but are not home?

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Originally Posted by cally woo

Okay, fair enough and makes sense. I will be asking and bringing beer. So what happens if they have legal access on their land but they don't give permission or they have the legal access but are not home?

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If there is legal access then you only have to inform them of your intentions, don't turn up with beers under one arm and a rifle in the other....legal access laws were written in the days before motor vehicles, surprising how many want access for their vehicle as they don't want to walk....if they are not home leave a note with your vehicle at their house and walk.

The first time I walked up the Whataroa I looked on the Doc website and it says right there that the first km or so from the carpark is private land owned by Dave Friend and says you must contact Dave before crossing his land. I gave him a call and he was blown away, there must be hundreds and hundreds of people that walk that route every year and he said the phone hardly ever rings.

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Originally Posted by Ryan_Songhurst

The first time I walked up the Whataroa I looked on the Doc website and it says right there that the first km or so from the carpark is private land owned by Dave Friend and says you must contact Dave before crossing his land. I gave him a call and he was blown away, there must be hundreds and hundreds of people that walk that route every year and he said the phone hardly ever rings.

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Pretty common theme on many of the large catchments we hunt, most people don’t bother. We always do. It’s always appreciated


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Common courtesy should be your calling card. It costs bugger all, sometimes opens doors otherwise closed and goes a long way toward painting our passion/hobby in a much better light.

most of the purple zones ive seen on pocket maps follow rivers and are known as marginal strips, you can stay within x distance of river as this is considered public land

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Originally Posted by muzza

If it was me , I would go out and make myself known to the farmer in advance of wanting to cross his land. No guns , no dog , no hunting related gear.

Most farmers hate being put on the spot and having to make a decision right away. If you obviously dont want to go through his land today , but have made the effort to meet him and seek his permission , that is worth far more pixie points than forcing him to make a decision as you stand there with you hunting gear.

Had this with fishermen all the time when I owned a dairy farm.. Be polite , accept it if he says no , or puts some condition on your entry - like lambing time etc.

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I concur that courtesy is appropriate ( isn't it always?) and may well be the easiest way of getting what you want. However, if you are looking to use a 'paper road' then you won't be setting foot on his property?

I prefer to view those situations as no different to a formed legal road ...... adjoining property owners don't have 'a paper road running through their property' , they have property either side of a 'paper road'.

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Originally Posted by cally woo

okay so I'm quite new to hunting so please forgive how dumb I sound/ really am...

So I have only been hunting road access blocks because I assumed farmers land was farmers land, and wanted to respect that.... I have only looked on DOC website for hunting areas because of this.

I recently had a friend over and he told me about legal access? apparently you can legally walk in the purple zones seen on an app called "pocket maps" to access some blocks.

This opens up a few blocks to me that I thought were land locked.

Just confirming this is correct before I get shot by an angry farmer. What are the rules? will farmers still get angry? should I be careful or embrace my new discovered rights and get after it?

Any info will be a big help.

Thanks

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there are many types of public access - all on here who say talk to farmer first are bang on - but many farmers do not respect public access and regard it as their land so ask first - okay public access can be a no of things and yes map systems will quite often blanket them with a coloured zone to designate private from public so in order 1) public road - was surveyed as a road - may have been formed - may have been used in years gone by - no longer maintained by Local Council - designated beyond peg by Council which means no longer maintained by them -yes legal access but local farmer is using grazing it regards it as part of his farm and that's the problem - if he states no you have the legal right to use it after all it is not his land - you have the legal right - this is a really common problem - see your Council and make sure of your legal position - and send letter to farmer and try to meet with him to assure him you are not a threat - but dont back down you have the legal right to use what is a public road good luck 2) Marginal strip - well at end of day its just paper lines on a map - but has been surveyed - or at least recognized as a legal piece of land owned by the crown -its not a formed road and really only exits on a map - its a strip between a river and private property - original intention was to provide access -but could be fenced of - or impossible to use as an access because of slips etc - GOVT land i.e our land public land -administered by LINZ (Land Information NZ ) they are not bloody interested so thread cautious like with this one -3 ) Queens Chain- exits only as writing on a piece of paper -not surveyed as its only a right - its not actually a piece of land - its simply that any stream or river over 4 metres wide ( I think thats right ) a person may walk along that river and exercise his QUEENS RIGHT TO DO SO - WARNING - that may not include carrying a rifle - 4)-there are others such as old road reserves - special purpose reserves -gravel extraction Reserves etc surveyed out years ago some administerd by DOC others LINZ both will not be interested unless you are prepared for a real tussle - most will not have staff who even could be bothered with finding files from years ago i.e 1890 but if the river has changed course mean time well may not still be a feasible access - so after all of that - its Farmer first - then Council - good luck - after 35 years in DOC going into bat for hunters and trying to get them the access they were legally entitled to success rate was not that high - Councils just not interested

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Originally Posted by Barry the hunter

there are many types of public access - all on here who say talk to farmer first are bang on - but many farmers do not respect public access and regard it as their land so ask first - okay public access can be a no of things and yes map systems will quite often blanket them with a coloured zone to designate private from public so in order 1) public road - was surveyed as a road - may have been formed - may have been used in years gone by - no longer maintained by Local Council - designated beyond peg by Council which means no longer maintained by them -yes legal access but local farmer is using grazing it regards it as part of his farm and that's the problem - if he states no you have the legal right to use it after all it is not his land - you have the legal right - this is a really common problem - see your Council and make sure of your legal position - and send letter to farmer and try to meet with him to assure him you are not a threat - but dont back down you have the legal right to use what is a public road good luck 2) Marginal strip - well at end of day its just paper lines on a map - but has been surveyed - or at least recognized as a legal piece of land owned by the crown -its not a formed road and really only exits on a map - its a strip between a river and private property - original intention was to provide access -but could be fenced of - or impossible to use as an access because of slips etc - GOVT land i.e our land public land -administered by LINZ (Land Information NZ ) they are not bloody interested so thread cautious like with this one -3 ) Queens Chain- exits only as writing on a piece of paper -not surveyed as its only a right - its not actually a piece of land - its simply that any stream or river over 4 metres wide ( I think thats right ) a person may walk along that river and exercise his QUEENS RIGHT TO DO SO - WARNING - that may not include carrying a rifle - 4)-there are others such as old road reserves - special purpose reserves -gravel extraction Reserves etc surveyed out years ago some administerd by DOC others LINZ both will not be interested unless you are prepared for a real tussle - most will not have staff who even could be bothered with finding files from years ago i.e 1890 but if the river has changed course mean time well may not still be a feasible access - so after all of that - its Farmer first - then Council - good luck - after 35 years in DOC going into bat for hunters and trying to get them the access they were legally entitled to success rate was not that high - Councils just not interested

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In regards to the Queen's Chain (or is that now King's Chain) I think the stream or waterway has to originate in DoC/Crown land....of course I could be wrong, just something I remember from years ago dealing with Forest Services for hunting permits.

Great summary:)

And I thought the definition for the Kings chain was a navigatable water way.

Also note on the paper road/public access. The access is exactly where it is in the map and in some places this may make it impassable. Ie a river may have cut across it, or s slip or gorge may impede access. if you forced the issue in these cases with the landowner the minute you step off the easement around a tree or slip etc you are tresspasing.
Much easier to call by a few weeks earlier after you have done you home work and with copies printed out.

Ps some guys have been burnt before so take that into consideration.
Z

Queen’s/Kings chain applies to only about 60% of coastline and water ways apparently. So be careful about where you believe this exists. I have copied and pasted the following guideline put out by a legal firm in2015.
“When Governor Hobson was surveying New Zealand he had strict instructions from Queen Victoria to set aside strips of land to provide particular sites for “roads, quays, recreation and amusement and for promoting health”. This led to early surveyors reserving land (but not all land) for these purposes alongside waterways, including rivers, lakes and sea boundaries.

However, it was not until 1892 that the Crown passed legislation requiring a strip of land (made up of a chain) to be reserved adjoining the high water mark for any Crown sales made after that date.

The term “chain” refers to an early surveyor’s tool called a chain which was made up 100 links (being 66 feet or 20 metres).

Currently, the law generally provides that where any subdivision divides land into lots under 4 acres the council can require an esplanade reserve (a 20 metre Queen’s chain strip) as part of the resource consent for any land adjoining rivers, lakes and beaches.

This means that the Queen’s chain now refers to the marginal strips and esplanade reserves, which normally are 20 metres wide, adjoining many lakes, rivers and the foreshore.

There are still however, a large amount of land ownership whereby there is no reserve or Queen’s chain and the land ownership continues right down to the water. It is these types of land ownership which can be said to contain riparian rights.

This usually relates to the high tide mark, but some titles may extend to the low water mark, particularly if the land is Maori land.

Riparian rights allow unimpeded access to that mark (whether high or low tide mark), however those rights are limited by any council bylaws which would apply and also the Resource Management Act. For example, the building of a jetty or small wharf on privately owned land which extends out into the water will require council consent regardless of whether or not riparian rights exist.“

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Originally Posted by ZQLewis

And I thought the definition for the Kings chain was a navigatable water way.

Also note on the paper road/public access. The access is exactly where it is in the map and in some places this may make it impassable. Ie a river may have cut across it, or s slip or gorge may impede access. if you forced the issue in these cases with the landowner the minute you step off the easement around a tree or slip etc you are tresspasing.
Much easier to call by a few weeks earlier after you have done you home work and with copies printed out.

Ps some guys have been burnt before so take that into consideration.
Z

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you are bang on -many legal roads cannot be used as they no longer exist in areas where rivers have changed course or major slips have happened - that aside we have managed to get a Council to send letter to landowner clarifying the situation and allowing public to use a legal road - but sadly all to often the landowner will lock gates or block road - all I can say is give it a go with landowner first - some once they know you are okay will allow access provided you notify them when going there -but some are just plain one eyed - protect what you have though - The person to talk to at Local Council is the Roading Engineer they have a lot of say -generally they are reluctant to close legal roads

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Originally Posted by cally woo

okay so I'm quite new to hunting so please forgive how dumb I sound/ really am...

So I have only been hunting road access blocks because I assumed farmers land was farmers land, and wanted to respect that.... I have only looked on DOC website for hunting areas because of this.

I recently had a friend over and he told me about legal access? apparently you can legally walk in the purple zones seen on an app called "pocket maps" to access some blocks.

This opens up a few blocks to me that I thought were land locked.

Just confirming this is correct before I get shot by an angry farmer. What are the rules? will farmers still get angry? should I be careful or embrace my new discovered rights and get after it?

Any info will be a big help.

Thanks

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You’ve already had some good etiquette answers, I’ve also found it very beneficial to begin with gaining access to target pests, possum, rabbits, hares, wallabies. You’ll find if there’s good deer hunting the farmers likely been hounded for access but a lot of people won’t be wanting to help him with the pest control.

Great info guys. I've surveyed land all around Marlborough / Kaikoura over the years and those paper roads we had to lay out, that were drawn up in England by drawing a straight line on a map, were definitely not in some situations accessible. Try laying out a road over a bluff grrrrrrr. Always ask the farmer first and if he says no then tell him your a surveyor lol. They go quite very quickly ;-) especially if they're getting free grazing ;-) It happened once to a work colleague that was taking his family on a picnic. The farmer said he was on private land, but as soon as he said he knew the boundary being a surveyor (who'd laid it out a year before) , the farmer was very helpful all of a sudden lol.. Still best to ask first

A while back I ran in to the issue in mount lyford. The skifield managers dont allow access off the road to the public land accross the river to doc land. I didnt find this out until I
Rang them up to see if we could get access to drive up for the kids. Was goig to get the mrs to drop me off where the road goes into doc land. Unforturnatly when asked " whats your plans?" I out of character squeeled like a stuck pig. Old mate on the phone denied us entry and wouldnt have a bar of it.

Funny thing is the public road goes right up to the villages water overflow/swimming hole. Theres bassically skulls and crossbones everywhere saying you will be prosecuted and cctv lol for poaching blah blah blah.
Next evening I just went for a nosey and saw 3 hinds on the bush edge on the public land edge.
Technically via the Queens chain argument I should have had access from the water source to the river with out any complications. Due to the family being there,and not wanting any stir I left it.

It is a shame when certain land owners are difficult or have apower complex. Any old farmers I have known are always good sorts. My family never had issues with respectful people asking.

We used to beach our boat in queenstown tied up to a willow for years as everyone did. When summer came around went to check over our hobbie cat and dingy and the hobie was gone, along with my uncles fibreglass outboard, Flaming Marty the harbour master took em, in conversations when it came up about the queens chain, there was no question that we had the right to moore the boats there. All boats were chained and paddlocked.