Thread: 223 on deer

I sold my 223 but if I had kept it I would use the Norma factory Oryx loads. I found the American bullets too soft

This is one of those subjects that gets people a bit uppity.

You have to look at the different classes of shooting to get your head around what best practice is with a .224 cal bullet. Obviously the term “best practice” invites all sorts of criticism depending on your own definition of “best” is.

You’ll always hear that it is “unethical” to shoot deer with a .223 when obviously there are numerous “better” choices. But the simple fact is there are lots of professionals who shoot deer with a .223. Ground-based shooters and helicopter shooters, typically with a 62 or 64 grain bullet. I can’t speak for all of them but the ground-based professionals I’ve come across all head shoot deer. I too shoot dozens of deer every year with my .223 1:12” with the 50gr Z-Max. Head shots only. The fellas I hang with all shoot .223, all head shoot, the only exception is the Roar when the 308 or 270 comes out for some close up big boy action. These guys are either shepherds or landowners and all carry a rifle on the bike and most days they will shoot a deer or a goat or several. See them in action and they are machines.

This is just the way it’s done and there’s no point arguing it, especially if you’re only an occasional recreational shooter. I get the concern but it’s just the way it is.

Something to consider is the culling of kangaroos in Australia. The industry standard is the .223 Remington and by law you must head shoot the animal. Chest shots are only permitted for injured animals on the run. A couple of fellas have tried to convince me that a deer doesn’t behave the same way as a kangaroo but if you put some hours in on the hill you will know that a deer isn’t a rooting pig, for example, and there’s plenty of time to shoot it in the head. Just have to be patient and wait for the right moment.

so that’s what I would do @NewbieZAR. You’ll be a good enough shot for that no problem. If it’s not for you then use another cartridge with a wider, heavier bullet.

great points flyblown...great indeed
varmit type projectiles come into their own for head/neck...the theory being a close miss will fragment enough to be fatal or immobilise allowing 2nd shot....stun/cut throat
the wee barnes 50 grn at under 200 yards preform very well and internal damage is similar to slow cup n core of larger cartridge...but damage is done on opposite sides eg lots on near and little on exit.
they great for chest shooting...Im not patient or exceptional shot so they give me a little leeway and confidence....
horses for courses

cheers for the feedback guys.

I geuss some clarity is needed, my main hunting rifle is a 270 out of which i shoot 150gr bergers at 2920fps

The 223 will be for when im blasting away at goats etc on the pine block, and a red or fallow steps out. And for when im hunting fallow on doc land as the 270 is a bit much for them.

I have shot animals out to 810 yards with it and can regularly hit a 200mm plate at that range with my 270.

More just thinking how they vmaxes would go if a red was to step out at say 300 - 400yards.

Cheers guys, will read up some more

now me...3-400yards and 223 is a no no .....sure some folks will say they head shoot at that range...to which I will reply how many rabbits do you miss at that range????
I would seriously look at the hornady 55grn in 50 bulk pack if you dont reload...or grab a pack to try even if you do....they would be great goat medicine and will handle bigger stuff too...but I wouldnt stretch the wee rifles barrel....they work great out to 200..after that use the mighty poohseventy,stalk closer or come back another day.

Go the "Mighty Mouse" as i love the .223!

I won't shoot deer over 250 with the .223 but most of my deer have all been bush hunting but my son who was 12 yrs at the time dropped a nice Fallow stag at 230 mtrs one day to a clean heart shot with 55 gr Sierras

I ran 55 gr V-max for a while with great results on Sika just shooting them in the chest where the chest cavity was mush and then switched to 55 gr Sierras but at least with them they mushroomed and most of the time i'd find them on the other side under the skin (chest shots)

Both types of projectiles killed well and it was a toss up of whether i stick with the vmax or Sierras and i think from memory i just went with the Sierras because i like a good lead tip.

Alot of people like to mention with .222/.223 to head/neck shoot deer where as with the sika and fallow i just shot them in the chest and down they'd go every single time but with reds and lets face it their a bigger bodied animal so with them you need to place the shot in the neck though I have heard of guys using barnes who just shoot the boiler room.

For what your wanting to do which is shooting goats/fallow and the ocassional red then get 55 / 63 / 65 gr Sierras or 55 gr Hornady's which are cheap but have also been very effective on Goats / Fallow for me.

Hot barrels

Basics have been covered on this thread already but just thought I would reiterate the fact that a .223 for red deer is not really a 300 to 400 yard cartridge. Virtually no energy at that range and the margin of error for a .223 is very little as it is. Throw in a slight breeze or small movement on the animals part as you pull the trigger and you can say goodbye to it.
I use a .223 a lot and have started steering clear of the pills that are lighter than 55gr, other than Barnes which punches well above it's weight.
As others have mentioned above, the basic Hornady and Sierra soft points are cheap and do the job.
Shot placement is key.

I've used both a .22-250 and a .223 a fair amount on fallow and a little on reds. Shot two fallow with 50gr z/v max first one was a neck shot and she fell over straight away. Second one didn't go as well, was a yearling spiker and I aimed at the neck again. He appeared to stumble at the shot however ran of with the rest of the mob. Searching revealed no sign of a hit or deer. About 6 weeks later I shot a yearling spiker in the same place, this time with a 55gr soft point in the chest. When I boned him out there was some bruising/ wounding on its neck, can't be sure it's the same animal but was enough to make me avoid the varmint projectiles for deer.
.223 will work fine just have to realise its limits better than I did that day.

Considering people shoot elk, beer, deer etc with bows I reckon a 223 with the right pill in the right range is just fine for a deer..

at one point NZFS issues deer cullers with .22lr browning t bolt I believe.....for both goats and deer... its all about shot placement and personal mindset/having confidence and dicipline to know when to shoot and more importantly when not to.

Quite happy to use a 55gnSP in the right circumstances when the shot is on.
This one dropped like a stone @247y but again I was really confident of the shot (stopped, head down, grazing, no wind, good set up I trusted and not a rushed shot). I think that's a really good point @NewbieZAR raises that we sometimes miss because we are prepared to rush a shot, rather than respect the animal and let it walk.


I now have the luxury with a faster twist 1:8 .223 of using a 75 grain bonded Speer Gold dot - which I'm looking forward to using a little more with these and this cal across a wider range of animals. BTW the place was mainly Fallow, but when life gives you a upgrade who am i to say no...

almost looks like on old bulldozed track too...how COULD a fella pass up that chance??? your barrel looks like it long enough to be half way there anyway...you would be at least 6" closer than alot of folks...good on you for not cutting it super silly short.

I have shot more Deer with a 223 than all other Cals put together
All I might add - were shot with full jacket - cheap Russian and I think Serbian Ammo
Hand on heart - I can only think of 4 or 5 that got away after been hit
That was actually more to do with the shitty Wichita base mount that was on my 1st Mini14 - it never held zero well and I jaw shot a few (poor beggars - no a nice way to die:-(
However – I would never go back to that Cal
It was purely to do with cheap ammo – semi auto 20 shot mags etc
If Deer shot chest – would run like not hit at all – but dead within 40m
Norinco was common use back then too - think that's China made ??

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

almost looks like on old bulldozed track too...how COULD a fella pass up that chance??? your barrel looks like it long enough to be half way there anyway...you would be at least 6" closer than alot of folks...good on you for not cutting it super silly short.

Hahaha.. Thanks @mickyduck lets just say it wasn't too hard getting the sxs in there, and yes looks long in the photo but is factory length - plus a forward Waitaki suppressor I was lucky enough to win at the last Toby Shoot down in Kurow. Actually it balances very well with the paper weight added. I also have a .308 with 16.5" pipe for the bush, but that is in need of a re-barrel so its having time out in my safe for now while this get a few more walks and is becoming my go to...

CD.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

at one point NZFS issues deer cullers with .22lr browning t bolt I believe.....for both goats and deer... its all about shot placement and personal mindset/having confidence and dicipline to know when to shoot and more importantly when not to.

At what point in time was that Micky Duck? .222,308 and .270 were the main flavours and on the odd occasion certain guys were supplied .243. that list was a definite on the Thar blocks. Although the majority of hunters on the Thar including myself carried .222's. I'm talking mid 60's-late 70's.