Thread: 223 on deer

Originally Posted by gimp

2812fps

Optimal length isn't as clear as optimal twist. Longer will give you more speed but I like shorter barrels.

Impressive out of a short barrel. What sort of velocity loss would you expect for another 2 inches shorter at 16”?

Originally Posted by Backsteaks

Impressive out of a short barrel. What sort of velocity loss would you expect for another 2 inches shorter at 16”?

I'm getting 2780 out of 16" with a 75 Amax.

2,930fps. 77 grn. 2206H. 21.5"

3K, 69grn. 2206H. 20"

3,130fps, 64 grn, 2206H. 20"

Originally Posted by Tahr

2,930fps. 77 grn. 2206H. 21.5"

3K, 69grn. 2206H. 20"

3,130fps, 64 grn, 2206H. 20"

@Tahr
so I have picked up a Savage / Stevens with a 1-9 twist, apparently loves 69gr projectiles , do you have a bullet choice that would be suitable on Deer..mainly fallow and Reds. ??

69 grn Sierra Match Tipped and 2206H powder. Lethal.

And thats with a 223,no walking away deer there.

Originally Posted by Trout

And thats with a 223,no walking away deer there.

Sorry - I deleted the pic. Second thoughts about it being a bit gruesome.

Originally Posted by Phil_H

@Tahr, sorry that you felt the need to delete the pics.
I saw it before you deleted and also showed Sharon, who was rightly impressed.
I am currently trying to encourage Sharon into using the .223 rather than exclusively shooting with the .22 Mag after her fiasco introduction with the Baikal .243....my fault....but that is another story

Why I am sorry that the picture has been removed is that it shows very graphically the true effect of the bullet on the deer and this I find a far better way of assessing the bullets effectiveness rather than the often overused phrases such as DRT, or it ran x meters and dropped.
A verbal description is up for interpretation by the user and the reader and either can add a reasonable amount of variation to what actually occurred.
A picture of the damage, even though graphically gruesome to some, shows exactly what happened, and is...for me at least....a better means of making an assessment of which bullets work.

This was also borne out by Sharon looking at the picture and making her own assessment that with an exit hole as shown, the animal had been dispatched in a very ethical manner and would be very dead.
This impressed her and helped her warm more to the .223....not that she is likely to pick up the rifle and and think that she can just go straight out slaying deer.
She understands it is a gradual process of gaining skills and experience.....but faith in the rifle and the bullet and what they are capable of doing with the right skills helps build confidence.

But I digress. The picture that you posted and deleted and all your other pictures of your postmortem's on animals you have shot has helped me - and I should imagine many others as well - make good judgements to what are good ethical bullets for hunting.
Please reconsider and keep the pictures coming.....after all this is a hunting forum....if one has not the stomach for the reality of what happens when an animal is shot, then maybe another way of gathering food like gardening would be more suited to their sensibilities....at the very least they shouldn't be on a hunting forum.

Cheers
Phil

Here it is.

69 grain tipped Sierra exit @ 230 yards. Red spiker.

It's interesting reading this thread, many readers would get the impression you need 70gn+ and even then only the correct projectiles to make .223 a viable round, yet we've got most of our commercial pest control people culling deer very successfully with 55gn belmont (or whatever else is cheap), along with heaps of other shooters and hunters doing the same thing.

Originally Posted by Ben Waimata

It's interesting reading this thread, many readers would get the impression you need 70gn+ and even then only the correct projectiles to make .223 a viable round, yet we've got most of our commercial pest control people culling deer very successfully with 55gn belmont (or whatever else is cheap), along with heaps of other shooters and hunters doing the same thing.

Exactly. Most .224 cal projectiles are good enough so long as their limitations are understood. The 55 grn Hornady that Belmont use are perfectly adequate and bowl plenty of deer. But there is better if you have the right twist and hand load.

Originally Posted by Ben Waimata

It's interesting reading this thread, many readers would get the impression you need 70gn+ and even then only the correct projectiles to make .223 a viable round, yet we've got most of our commercial pest control people culling deer very successfully with 55gn belmont (or whatever else is cheap), along with heaps of other shooters and hunters doing the same thing.

Sure, it's the difference between optimal and functional

I guess its a bit like me using the 22-250 with explosive varmit projectiles going fast to shoot hares at 75 yards...I could do it with the humble .22lr but its just so much more emphatic with big rifle.
I do understand the advantage of heavier projectiles (why I have 170grn rn for the .270) I also know I can kill deer deader than dead with 50grn load in the 223 IF I get in close and put it in right place.

youve done opened a can of worms now Phil.......you will be going to cabinet and eni meany miny moe from here on in...enjoy your venison ,it should be good n tasti eating.

Originally Posted by Phil_H

This morning, 0715 hrs, this little fallow turned up with two of his mates.....one of them being the "white buck" of a few days ago.

Attachment 167659

In fact had I not spotted the buck standing out like dogs balls 700 meters away in a paddock I would have walked right past them as I went to the forest edge in search of the elusive pigs.
Anyway, ducking out of sight and skirting around them through the forest and then crawling on my stomach to the 'grassy knoll' overlooking where they were grazing I managed to close the gap to 140 meters. One shot aimed at mid shoulder, passed through both shoulders and lodged under the hide on the other side. The wee fella jumped straight up in the air, took about 4 wussy steps and then collapsed.



I deliberately gave the white stag a pass,
1/. because he was larger and I still had no experience of the .223 on deer.
2/. I would never have seen these deer had it not been for the white one....so yes, I understand the reason why he is called the Judas deer. I have let him live today in the hope he will show me more deer in weeks to come.

Anyway, the bullet was a 55gr GameKing and I am impressed. Perfect mushroom and retrieved bullet retained 51gr.

Attachment 167660

I can't wait until I get my new load with 69gr Tipped Match Kings sorted.

I've decided to call this wee fallow Kennedy.......Shots from the Grassy Knoll...???? No...??? Those born before 22 November 1963 might get it.....

Cheers
Phil

Greetings Phil and All,
That white fallow could have a nasty surprise once you get those TMK's loaded. And yes Micky there is a ruckus coming from my rifle cupboard every time the occupants think one of them might be taken out for a walk. And yet when I spotted that the Bergara single shots were chambered in 6.5x57R I got all weak at the knees thinking how great one would be to go with my .308. Fortunately after a couple of days I had persuaded myself that the two 6.5x55 rifles I already have should suffice. Then I thought that one in .357 Mag would be really useful. Oh well it is just a cross us rifle loonies have to bear, some more than others.
Regards Grandpamac.

Originally Posted by Phil_H

This morning, 0715 hrs, this little fallow turned up with two of his mates.....one of them being the "white buck" of a few days ago.

Attachment 167659

In fact had I not spotted the buck standing out like dogs balls 700 meters away in a paddock I would have walked right past them as I went to the forest edge in search of the elusive pigs.
Anyway, ducking out of sight and skirting around them through the forest and then crawling on my stomach to the 'grassy knoll' overlooking where they were grazing I managed to close the gap to 140 meters. One shot aimed at mid shoulder, passed through both shoulders and lodged under the hide on the other side. The wee fella jumped straight up in the air, took about 4 wussy steps and then collapsed.



I deliberately gave the white stag a pass,
1/. because he was larger and I still had no experience of the .223 on deer.
2/. I would never have seen these deer had it not been for the white one....so yes, I understand the reason why he is called the Judas deer. I have let him live today in the hope he will show me more deer in weeks to come.

Anyway, the bullet was a 55gr GameKing and I am impressed. Perfect mushroom and retrieved bullet retained 51gr.

Attachment 167660

I can't wait until I get my new load with 69gr Tipped Match Kings sorted.

I've decided to call this wee fallow Kennedy.......Shots from the Grassy Knoll...???? No...??? Those born before 22 November 1963 might get it.....

Cheers
Phil

Beautiful well done, enjoy the venison.